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Chinatown

ksun said:
Lee Garden for example is always praised by western customers but I have never heard any Chinese who recommend Lee Garden to anyone. It is more for the tourists. Asian Legend is rather bland and weird (not sure what kind of Chinese food that is). Rol San is always busy but come on, if a Dim Sum restaurant looks as crappy as that in Shanghai or Guangzhou, nobody will go there (or only students or poor people will ever go).
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Lee Garden is pretty acceptable - though local, contemporary Hong Kong styled Cantonese tend to go avoid that level of fat (or portion size) nowadays. As to Asian Legend, it's more or less quasi-Taiwanese. The quality has gone slightly downhill since the original owner (back when it was a hole in the wall) no longer works the kitchen.

But it is still seriously lacking in varieties, for example, I don't see a single Shanghainese restaurants (or something similar).
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Can't think of any in the Spadina Chinatown (though Asian Legend does have some of the essentials, to varying degree of success or failure). There are others out in Markham (ex 369, A la, whatever the one on Yonge and John St. was called, etc), but I don't consider them to be all that great compared to a few years ago.

AoD
 
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I actually find that Chinatown has turned the corner. The restaurants are noticeably more busy this year than last year. It is not uncommon for there to be line-ups on the weekend at many of the restaurants both for dim-sum and dinner-time sittings. I think that the population increase in the core to the south is finally having a positive impact there.

Regarding Lee Garden: I think it's great value, uses quality ingredients, and would definitely recommend it. My father is Chinese and regularly spends half his time in China. He's been going there for years.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Can't think of any in the Spadina Chinatown (though Asian Legend does have some of the essentials, to varying degree of success or failure). There are others out in Markham (ex 369, A la, whatever the one on Yonge and John St. was called, etc), but I don't consider them to be all that great compared to a few years ago.

AoD
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true. However, I still think Spadina Chinatown needs a lot more variety in terms of Chinese food options. There are too many restaurants of the same old and tired mediocre style, sometimes I wonder how come they could even survive with such poor offerings. Just the presence of the large number of Chinese students at UofT is big enough to support new and better business. Enough of those tables covered with 100 layers of plastic sheets. It is no longer the 1980s and they should realize that. This is probably why Lee Garden is popular, because you can at least bring a friend/guest to a restaurant without feeling completely embarrassed by the cheap décor and tableware.

It is definitely improving as far as I can see it. I can imagine 15 years go most Canadians would think the language the heard as Cantonese was "Chinese" and those restaurants in Chinatown represented the entire Chinese cuisine.

On a side note, I notice that retail on Dundas West between Bay and University is becoming increasing Asian (Chinese, Korean, Japanese). More than 2/3 of the stores are Asian-themed I suppose. A new Japanese cheesecake place just opened last week and people queue up for two hours. Will Dundas West eventually become an Asian retail street?
 
Forgive my ignorance of Shanghaiese food, I don't really know what that is. Would none of the dumpling places sort of fall into that category? There have been at least two new dumpling places along Dundas.

I treat Asian Legend as yet another chain (which I believe it is), kinda like Tea Shop 168 in a dedicated restaurant form. Or Pho Dau Bo.

ksun: I'd recommend you try out the newish Hot Pot place Master Mix. It's quite good, and although not the first Hot Pot place in Chinatown, it is different from those plastic sheet places.

ksun said:
On a side note, I notice that retail on Dundas West between Bay and University is becoming increasing Asian (Chinese, Korean, Japanese). More than 2/3 of the stores are Asian-themed I suppose. A new Japanese cheesecake place just opened last week and people queue up for two hours. Will Dundas West eventually become an Asian retail street?
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This is an interesting thought, it's like the re-emergency of a long, nearly dead Chinatown in another Asian form. I have noticed the same thing, while some of the old Chinese restaurants in this area have been disappearing, they are usually quickly replaced with a more modern Asian fusion restaurant or more recently the trend of Sushi, Ramen and Korean BBQ. Apparently, that Japanese cheesecake place only has the capacity of making a couple dozen of cheese cakes per batch (which of course takes some time). This causes the line-up.

Speaking of this area... has anyone actually tried that New Treasure Dim Sum Restaurant underneath Starbucks / Subway in this area? I've always been curious about the Dim Sum quality.
 
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Ahsun said:
Forgive my ignorance of Shanghaiese food, I don't really know what that is. Would none of the dumpling places sort of fall into that category? There have been at least two new dumpling places along Dundas.
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Dumplings (Soup wantons, steamed/soup/pan-fried dumplings/potstickers) is one aspect of Shanghainese food. There are variations of stir-fries of course, but you will also find a lot of savoury, braised dishes that is almost invariably dark looking (dark soy sauce is used a lot more liberally than in Cantonese cooking)

I treat Asian Legend as yet another chain (which I believe it is), kinda like Tea Shop 168 in a dedicated restaurant form. Or Pho Dau Bo.
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Asian Legend used to be this tiny hole in the wall, 2nd floor restaurant at the north west corner of Dundas/Spadina, in a dumpy (since dumpier) indoor mall. The owner was an old Kuomingdong veteran I believe - they made it big and became a chain.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Asian Legend used to be this tiny hole in the wall, 2nd floor restaurant at the north west corner of Dundas/Spadina, in a dumpy (since dumpier) indoor mall. The owner was an old Kuomingdong veteran I believe - they made it big and became a chain.
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Ha, I had no idea!

The more I think about it.. the more I have to agree with TrickyRicky above, Chinatown does seem to be rebounding and is no longer in utter-decline.
 
Ahsun, I think you are right in the sense that there are still too many underperforming old restaurants but there is definitely greater diversity. In a way as mentioned, it is becoming more pan-Asian with the larger presence of Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean etc. fare, as well as opening up of more suburban chains like Mongolian hot pot etc.

I went to a Yunnan place about a month ago on Dundas. I'm not going to say I recommend it or am particularly fond of the food (it was OK) but at least it speaks to your desire for more variety.
 
Ahsun said:
Ha, I had no idea!
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It was actually a spot that is worth traveling from the burbs from at that time.

TrickyRicky said:
Ahsun, I think you are right in the sense that there are still too many underperforming old restaurants but there is definitely greater diversity. In a way as mentioned, it is becoming more pan-Asian with the larger presence of Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean etc. fare, as well as opening up of more suburban chains like Mongolian hot pot etc.

I went to a Yunnan place about a month ago on Dundas. I'm not going to say I recommend it or am particularly fond of the food (it was OK) but at least it speaks to your desire for more variety.
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The increasing diversity is probably partly driven by the changes in Chinese immigrant population - from Toishan to Hong Kong to Mainland Chinese.

AoD
 
King of Kensington said:
Indeed. I don't know where the "Chinatown is mostly Vietnamese" myth (I've heard it for both Chinatown proper and East Chinatown incidentally) came from.
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This is an interesting topic and my theory is that one needs to look a little deeper into the specific Chinese subcultures that exist in the area.

I would speculate that many of the people who run the seemingly Vietnamese shops in Chinatown are Chinese, but specifically of the "Hoa" diaspora. In short, Chinese people with deep roots in Vietnam. I think this is why you often see store signs with both Chinese and Vietnamese writing on it.

This is based on nothing but my own observations having grown up in the area and living nearby for most of my life as well as observing my parents mingling with the locals and shop folks over the years. I am "Hoa" myself.
 
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jonesdow said:
This is an interesting topic and my theory is that one needs to look a little deeper into the specific Chinese subcultures that exist in the area.

I would speculate that many of the people who run the seemingly Vietnamese shops in Chinatown are Chinese, but specifically of the "Hoa" diaspora. In short, Chinese people with deep roots in Vietnam. I think this is why you often see store signs with both Chinese and Vietnamese writing on it.

This is based on nothing but my own observations having grown up in the area and living nearby for most of my life as well as observing my parents mingling with the locals and shop folks over the years. I am "Hoa" myself.
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This is pretty much my understanding of how the area is more viet as well. Many of the "Viet" people are boat people and do speak fluent Cantonese, as well as Vietnamese.
 
ksun said:
On a side note, I notice that retail on Dundas West between Bay and University is becoming increasing Asian (Chinese, Korean, Japanese). More than 2/3 of the stores are Asian-themed I suppose. A new Japanese cheesecake place just opened last week and people queue up for two hours. Will Dundas West eventually become an Asian retail street?
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Bay and Dundas was, of course, the pre-1970 Chinatown.
 
jonesdow said:
This is an interesting topic and my theory is that one needs to look a little deeper into the specific Chinese subcultures that exist in the area.

I would speculate that many of the people who run the seemingly Vietnamese shops in Chinatown are Chinese, but specifically of the "Hoa" diaspora. In short, Chinese people with deep roots in Vietnam. I think this is why you often see store signs with both Chinese and Vietnamese writing on it.

This is based on nothing but my own observations having grown up in the area and living nearby for most of my life as well as observing my parents mingling with the locals and shop folks over the years. I am "Hoa" myself.
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Perhaps the Hoa presence isn't evident in the data on ethnic origin, birthplace, timing of immigration or language. My feeling though is while they are present in Chinatown they don't come anywhere close to a plurality let alone dominating the population.
 
Chinese Traditional Buns on Dundas is pretty legit. Don't go for the ambiance for sure - but the food tastes like you are back in China somewhere. Possibly too authentic. It goes without saying that the hundreds of thousands of Chinese people who live in the northwest part of the city and have the money to be discerning are going to drive better eating up there.
 
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