Carsharing Grows

[Chuck]

While Zipcar is good, I think such an idea could only be implemented by a really local, Toronto based company that understand the GTA and understands where transit is heading in the near future. All the changes coming to GO and the various new TTC lines are set to change the way Torontonians think of transit. There's a real opportunity for a company that can think big to really do well here. Applying a fixed metric like 30-40 riders per car per location would fail to take into account the fact that when it comes to transportation the whole will always be greater than the sum of its parts.

The problem is that linking transit and car sharing in the same trip completely defeats the convenience and incentive of giving up your car in the first place. It means taking transit to the rental lot, driving to the grocery store, dropping them off at home, driving back to the lot, then taking transit home. I've done this before, and although doable, it's not a pleasant experience.

 

[kEiThZ]

The problem is that linking transit and car sharing in the same trip completely defeats the convenience and incentive of giving up your car in the first place. It means taking transit to the rental lot, driving to the grocery store, dropping them off at home, driving back to the lot, then taking transit home. I've done this before, and although doable, it's not a pleasant experience.

I am not suggesting that the car sharing network be entirely built around the transit network, just that there should be more emphasis on co-location. Car share lots should, of course, continue to be placed elsewhere as demand warrants.

 

[Northern Light]

Been awhile since I updated this thread.

I'm not going to report on every location the 2 carsharing services have added...(dozens) ....

But I will note a few of the areas newly served.

In the last few months:

Autoshare is now in:

South-West Scarborough (Vic Park & Danforth)
Former City of York (Eglinton/Allen Rd)
CityPlace (former Railway Lands)
Evergreen Brickworks
Corus Quay

Zipcar is now found at:

Danforth/Greenwood
Willowdale + Sheppard
Fairview Mall
Don Mills + Finch (Seneca College)
The Junction (Jane + Dundas W)

 

[Tuscani01]

Been awhile since I updated this thread.

I'm not going to report on every location the 2 carsharing services have added...(dozens) ....

But I will note a few of the areas newly served.

In the last few months:

Autoshare is now in:

South-West Scarborough (Vic Park & Danforth)
Former City of York (Eglinton/Allen Rd)
CityPlace (former Railway Lands)
Evergreen Brickworks
Corus Quay

Zipcar is now found at:

Danforth/Greenwood
Willowdale + Sheppard
Fairview Mall
Don Mills + Finch (Seneca College)
The Junction (Jane + Dundas W)

Cityplace has both Autoshare and Zipcar.

 

[EnviroTO]

I really don't understand the Evergreen Brickworks. How often is someone going to start a journey there?

 

[nfitz]

I really don't understand the Evergreen Brickworks. How often is someone going to start a journey there?

There are people working in this location; I'm not sure how many though. But give the poor transit in this area other than the free shuttle to Broadview, I could well imagine that almost any business-related trip would require a vehicle.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Zipcar may not have been successful in the suburbs, because their target demographic is likely to own a car anyway. In order to take part in Zipcar you need to have a G license and a major credit card; people that possess these two things in the city most likely don't own a car, but people who possess these in the suburbs generally do. Captive suburban transit riders are generally poorer immigrants that may lack either a full driver's license or a credit card.

Also, Chuck makes a good point: Zipcar is really only convenient if you walk from your house to a Zipcar lot. Taking transit to a lot only to repeat the process in reverse when you park it is a huge hassle. Your neighbourhood has to be sufficiently dense and have sufficiently affluent people to make Zipcar viable; in other words, it works downtown and almost no place else. Zipcar's purpose for urbanites is to access suburban destinations or to run chores that would be incredibly cumbersome without a car.

 

[Chuck]

Zipcar may not have been successful in the suburbs, because their target demographic is likely to own a car anyway. In order to take part in Zipcar you need to have a G license and a major credit card; people that possess these two things in the city most likely don't own a car, but people who possess these in the suburbs generally do. Captive suburban transit riders are generally poorer immigrants that may lack either a full driver's license or a credit card.

It's worth mentioning that when an area becomes increasingly urban, that too causes carsharing to become less viable. Even from downtown Toronto, you can rent a zipcar and in 10 minutes arrive at a big box style supermarket with free parking. Where would the incentive be in Manhattan where you either have to face the hassle of crossing a river and paying tolls get to that kind of store, or pay $30 to park your car at a supermarket on the island? You're better off paying the $5 cab fare each way. Car sharing is most effective in moderately urbanized areas like downtown that are neither too urban to make driving unattractive, nor so suburban that car ownership is necessary.

Edit: Having said that though, NYC has mega-lots with 10+ zipcars within blocks of each other, so it must be working for at least some people! I found one zipcar lot with 19 vehicles in the East Village, and 4 lots containing 36 zipcars within 1 block of Union Square Park.

 

[Northern Light]

An important correction here:

ZIPCAR does NOT require a Full G.

You can join w/G2 at age 21.

Autoshare does require Full G and 23

***

Also these services do work outside downtown. Zipcar is at York U (3 cars)

Both services have multiple locations and cars in North York Centre (Zipcar has 5 at one location at Yonge/Sheppard)

Both services have locations at Fairview Mall/Don Mills & Sheppard.

***

Certainly though, good access to transit (reduced car ownership levels) and medium or higher density do seem to be pre-requisites.

 

[Northern Light]

I will add, there have been some suburban pullbacks, mostly Zipcar, which has been the more aggressive expander.

Areas tried which no longer have service, Leaside, Thorncliffe, University of Toronto @ Miss., Marlee near Lawrence W., the Etobicoke Motel Strip redevelopment, and Vic Park & Egln. (though I gather there will something near this last one again soon)

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Zipcar's purpose for urbanites is to access suburban destinations or to run chores that would be incredibly cumbersome without a car.

One thing to note is that many suburbanites already have easy access to the sorts of places urbanites are using the cars to get to, so it just wouldn't be worth it to rent a car, even if the membership was cost-competitive with TTC fare (or even walking). Not so much in a place like Pickering, but then the Zipcar lots themselves would be just as inconvenient out there.

Suburbanites that don't own cars (or enough cars, if dad takes the car to work and mom is left without one) are probably a lot less likely to live in inconvenient places like the interior of a 2km by 2km concession grid subdivision or some leafy dead-end ravine road. Want to get to a supermarket? You may already live a <5 minute walk from one since so many people live in mixed use clusters like Warden & Finch. If you need to travel a few kilometres to get to some big box stores, fine, as the local buses are fast and frequent and transferring is so easy (not always the case downtown, where some local transit trips can be quite painful).

Also, suburbanites almost invariably have more family and friends living nearby that can give them rides to Costco or wherever.

 

[kEiThZ]

Personally, I find that Zipcar has a huge hole in Scarborough. I have a Zipcar membership. Not much opportunity to use it where I am the most. Seriously, would it kill them to bulk up service at STC?

 

[Northern Light]

Zipcar and TTC held a presser this morning.....

Zipcars now at 4 TTC lots:

Keele
Eglnton West
Wilson
Leslie

They continue to be underrepresented in the east end, as Keithz noted, hopefully that will change soon.

Autoshare will also be getting TTC spaces (not sure which stations) and I believe, they will by trying out Mississauga again this year.

I will provide details when I know them.

(Editorial note, Autoshare, the Toronto-based company, as opposed to Zipcar, the Multi-national, keeps getting out-flanked on press coverage, they really need to work on that!)

 

[Chuck]

(Editorial note, Autoshare, the Toronto-based company, as opposed to Zipcar, the Multi-national, keeps getting out-flanked on press coverage, they really need to work on that!)

Autoshare doesn't have enough cars. For example, Zipcar has 30 cars in the CBD (let's say Queen to Simcoe to Church to Bremner), while Autoshare has 6. On top of that, Zipcar's typical lot has 2-3 cars while Autoshare's typical lot has 1-2 cars.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Autoshare doesn't have enough cars. For example, Zipcar has 30 cars in the CBD (let's say Queen to Simcoe to Church to Bremner), while Autoshare has 6. On top of that, Zipcar's typical lot has 2-3 cars while Autoshare's typical lot has 1-2 cars.

How long does one actually drive any car? Most of the time it would be parked, so let someone else drive it when one is not using it. What is really needed is more lots in more places. The current distribution is not spread out enough. Would like to see some lots in the Weston area, for example.