Can Premier Wynne Win in 2018? | Page 82

Discussion in 'Politics (Toronto Issues)' started by MetroMan, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. jje1000

    jje1000 Senior Member

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    Definitely so- but given the way that the Liberals have seemingly gotten us into this issue (according to the Redditor) by signing long term deals for our excess green energy, then realizing that we need extra energy to tide us over while our nuclear plants are down doesn't give me much hope.

    As Quebec deals to benefit itself, I would imagine that any potential deal will depend on how pressured our government is feeling in regards to this potential shortfall.

    On the larger Ontario picture, AMPCO notes that electricity rates in Ontario for large users are quite high- perhaps the lower Toronto industrial rates might be the result of city hall-directed initiatives/rebates to retain industry in the city?

    It might be worth looking into what Toronto Hydro charges versus the rest of the province.

    http://www.ampco.org/index.cfm?pagePath=Analysis/Benchmarking&id=36556
    http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/electricsystem/business/rates/Pages/busrates.aspx
     
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  2. jje1000

    jje1000 Senior Member

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    An opinion piece in the National Post which brings up two points (public ownership and debt) regarding Hydro One's recent acquisition of Avista:

    http://business.financialpost.com/o...ians/wcm/3751977d-90c7-4489-8437-78bea9a731f0
     
  3. Jasmine18

    Jasmine18 Active Member

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    People hate on Liberals and Wynee for good reasons.

    They wasted a billion dollars to save a few seats during an election and pretty laughing their asses off we still voted for them.

    I hope they are kicked out of office but I am sure people will vote for ideology over ethics.
     
  4. Jasmine18

    Jasmine18 Active Member

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    Leading the province the highest debt levels than that of any Province or State leading to increased billions of yearly debt interest payments

    then Saying that is a hallmark of good governance and we actually need for taxes.

    Is why I think people like you are rather tone deaf to how people actually feel in this province.
     
  5. Bayer

    Bayer Active Member

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    You are correct in that I am not interested in feelings at all; I am interested in facts.

    Our debt level is indeed very high. But Ontario is not a province that spends excessively, quite the contrary. According to RBC, only Alberta will have lower revenues relative to GDP in 2017-2018, and Ontario will have the lowest program spending relative to GDP of all the provinces for that fiscal year. And of all the provinces, only BC has lower income tax levels. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that our revenue has been insufficient.

    I am not loyal to the Liberals, but as long as the Conservatives intend to reduce spending mindlessly as they did before, I am not interested because that is not what we need.
     
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  6. ttk77

    ttk77 Senior Member

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    The debt it the problem. Servicing that high a debt is severely hindering our ability to properly fund our operating and capital budgets without going further into debt. Now that we seem to be back in the black, we need to start addressing this.
     
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  7. Bayer

    Bayer Active Member

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    Indeed, and the best way to do it is by increasing taxes - while knowing that three provinces have a debt-to-GDP ratio that is higher than Ontario's and there is no reason to panic.
     
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  8. Jasmine18

    Jasmine18 Active Member

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    You ignore the facts that you don't like and use on fact to supersede others.. so you do indeed deal in feelings, not facts.

    With highest hydro, tuition and insurance rates and already very high taxes...

    And a governing party that has a tendency to waste billions in the past on sheer incompetence or perhaps corruption.

    Hell no to higher taxes...
     
  9. Bayer

    Bayer Active Member

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    Whether or not you or I want to pay higher taxes is irrelevant; saying that taxes are "very high" in Ontario is patently false. Additionally, the government has done a lot to subsidize university tuition in the past couple of years, and electricity rates are the highest in Canada but are far higher in such cities as Boston, Detroit and NYC. You are not interested in reality, and are motivated strictly by your dislike of the current government.
     
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  10. jje1000

    jje1000 Senior Member

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/income-inequality-report-ccpa-1.4246874
     
  11. Jasmine18

    Jasmine18 Active Member

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    Yes it is, because the government represents the people and for their interests, so yes I do have a say whether taxes should be higher or lower...

    Income taxes are not the only form of Govt Taxation and I dont care if taxes in the East Coast or Quebec or Manitoba are higher, cost of living is much greater here and I cant go on EI as easily and many other things...

    Life is based on cash flow and cost of living in this province is too high based on the policies of this government...such as hydro and car insurance and many other things.

    The Government asking for more taxes after squandering billions on many poor ill thought investments and corruption scandals and racking up the debt to over 300 billion...

    is simply wrong and imo is rather tone deaf to the realities of the struggles peoples of this province fast.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017 at 8:48 PM
  12. AlvinofDiaspar

    AlvinofDiaspar Moderator

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    If the priority is paying down the debt, then why has successive governments - Liberal or PC - prioritized income and corporate tax cuts (independent of deficit spending) over debt payment? Perhaps when push comes to shove, the people are more interested in what benefits them immediately than in the long run. In that instance, pushing out the debt is a red herring argument.

    AoD
     
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  13. lead82

    lead82 Senior Member

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    There is a doctrine that says lower taxes bring more economic activity and grows the economy so that government will get more revenue to pay for services and service the debt. This of course has been disproven but I think the issue in Ontario is the realization that we can't keep taxing people for more revenue. We need to first manage the revenue we raise now a lot better.

    The problem is politics. Politics and democracy prevent the efficienct use of funds since elections and vote buying take priority over sound investment and leadership. Voters don't reward politicians who make sound decisions. They teward those that promise them rainbows and unicorns. The result is wasted money and boondoggles like Scarborough subway 1 stop for $5B or gas power plants or privatized Hydro. The list goes on. It's a problem of culture in government and institutions.

    Ontario needs more pragmatic leadership and more focused on keeping sound long term investments and less on vanity projects.

    Doing simple things like simplifying bureaucracy and removing wasteful spending would help. For example, why does no major party want to abolish the ridiculous 4 major school board admins in favour of 1? Why do we continue to have very high insurance rates when no other province does? (hint it has to do with fraud and ridiculous claim benefits mandatory) without much checks and balances. Why do we continue to subsidize sprawl and then complain about how expensive it is to build infrastructure?

    All these decisions have huge cost implications and are done for political reasons. We will never have efficient spending as that is impossible within our system.

    The Liberals have had their time in power. They have done many good things and many bad things. In 2018 I want to hear new and fresh ideas on how to make Ontario better for people and improve quality of life.
     
  14. Northern Light

    Northern Light Senior Member

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    Again, as been said by others.

    You have a right to your preferences, some of which I may even share, though I think for better reasons than you articulate..................... what you are not entitled to, is your own facts.

    Ontario's income tax is lower than the vast majority of Canadian provinces.

    Its sales tax is lower than 5 provinces.....(since there are 10, that would make us in the lower 1/2)

    Our corporate tax is competitive and below most jurisdictions. (Alberta's is higher)

    Now are you reasonable in complaints that there has been some corruption (and/or what appears to be, and was, at the very least, poor decision making) sure. Gas plant scandal topping the list, but I could make it much longer.

    Are you are reasonable in suggesting that many Ontarians, particularly those w/low-incomes are feeling the pinch? Sure. Absolutely.

    Is government policy a partial factor? Again, ding ding, you get the prize.

    Though it should be said that rocketing housing prices, and rents have relatively little to do w/recent, provincial policies; and casting blame differently would be unfair.

    *****

    Is there room to drop some ill-conceived spending? Yes

    Is there room to reduce some un-needed hassle for the 'average' Ontario in relating to gov't? Sure.

    Not sure when this wasn't the case mind you; the e-health scandal started in the Harris years, and the Liberals managed to do very little to improve matters.

    That is not an NDP endorsement btw; just a factual observation.

    The kind you would do well to stick to; instead of espousing blind hatred of one party, without the slightest notion or evidence that any other party would do any better.

    Hope, or wishful thinking is not a fact, nor evidence.

    While we're at it............perhaps you would care to enumerate the policy changes you would like to see, with indications as to how those might happen, and evidence that any party supports your ideas.

    Absent that.......your contributions are of little value.

    (apologies to others for my immoderation in my rant)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017 at 8:50 AM
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  15. jje1000

    jje1000 Senior Member

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    It seems like Ontario is going to buy around $8 billion worth of electricity over the next two decades from Quebec. Makes out to around 5 cents per kilowatthour (kWh).

    http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2017/08/16/hydro-quebec-lontario-en-ligne-de-mire

    Of course- to deal with the surplus-shortage that the Liberals have gotten us into:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/co...oquebec_electricity_sales_to_ontario/dlc3vcl/

    Again- bandaids on bandaids on bandaids while never truly stitching up the wound.
     

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