News   Apr 16, 2024
 117     0 
News   Apr 15, 2024
 1.1K     0 
News   Apr 15, 2024
 2.3K     5 

2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

It seems like Ontario is going to buy around $8 billion worth of electricity over the next two decades from Quebec. Makes out to around 5 cents per kilowatthour (kWh).

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2017/08/16/hydro-quebec-lontario-en-ligne-de-mire

Of course- to deal with the surplus-shortage that the Liberals have gotten us into:
T9C-gars said:
So much new power generation came on line through government incentives starting in 2005/2006 to generate more power (after all, there are 70 freaking companies involved in this mess), that a huge surplus in electricity entered the market.

But what usually happens with a surplus? Rates go down. But in our case, rates were locked at above market-rates (see 2006 above).

Therefore, to make it so this low-cost surplus (with rates fixed at above market prices) didn't completely ruin the province and industry, the government signed long-term locked-in deals with Manitoba, Quebec, New York, Michigan and Minnesota to sell them our surplus power at a low fixed rate.

That was fine and dandy, but then all the coal stations were closed, and 2 of our nuclear plants (60% of our power generation) will soon need to be closed for many years for upgrades.

All of a sudden our surplus is about to become a shortfall because we can't cancel the electricity contracts with Manitoba, New York, Michigan and Minnesota to supply them massive amounts of what we thought would be limitless electricity (lest we be sued for billions and billions by them for breach of contract), but in reality nobody foresaw that we're going to soon run low owing to all the coal plant shutdowns and nuclear shutdowns (We would have been fine had we not signed those damned US deals when we thought the "built more capacity" drives would give us an eternal excess supply). So now the difference in costs (between the fixed low-rate we're forced into selling to the US and the generation rate which is way more than anticipated) has cost Ontario consumers over $6 billion, passed on at billing time (rate hikes 3).

As an aside, and speaking of continued rate hikes, the privatized Hydro One still has legacy public pensions it needs to pay for (rate hikes 4), and it's own corporate debt stemming from the above events (rate hikes 5).

Ontario now needs to get electricity from somewhere, and fast. In enters the Wynn-Couillard duo, and Hydro Quebec.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/co...oquebec_electricity_sales_to_ontario/dlc3vcl/

Again- bandaids on bandaids on bandaids while never truly stitching up the wound.
 
None of them, IMO.

The Liberals throw a few crumbs to the people while doing anything and everything they can to stay in power short-term regardless of the long-term implications.

The Conservatives? Well they themselves don't really know what exactly they are and what they stand for.

And the NDP? The NDP would be great if they stopped perceiving themselves as a perpetual opposition party.
 
a few crumbs

"A few crumbs" is pretty disingenuous to the people who won't have to pay for cancer drugs, won't be prevented from being able to go to university because their parents aren't rich, etc., etc.

To follow on from the points that a few other folks have made, it's of course absolutely fine to disagree with the particular policy decisions the government has made, but it's plainly ridiculous to say that some of the interventions they have made are insignificant in scale, scope, or impact.

It'd be a lot easier to take seriously the most strident Liberal critics on here if they more consistently offered serious, intellectual, fact-based arguments that the rest of us could have an interesting discussion around.
 
Change isn't a bad thing - it provides the chance for the government and the party in power opportunities for renewal. But those who wanted to vie for power and the opportunity to government have to offer something more than platitudes. What are the new ideas? How will they work? We haven't seen anything of that sort so far.

AoD
 
Last edited:
it provides the chance for the government and the then party in power opportunities for renewal.

I find myself conceptually drawn to this view, but then typically wind up kicking myself for thinking it when we wind up on the other side of it. Look at what's going on south of the border as a very extreme example of that.

There's zero doubt that our American friends got a monumental change via their last election, and it's forcing both parties to confront their own circumstances and question what they're about and what policies they should pursue. But the country's also falling apart in the meantime and lots of people are getting hurt.

Change certainly offers the chance at renewal, but there's also an unquantifiable opportunity cost to that direction.

I worry about a Conservative government in Ontario for a whole bunch of reasons, not least of which is the fact that I have no idea what they'll do if they actually win. I don't think Patrick Brown is Donald Trump, but I also have no idea what he (and other power brokers in his party) have in mind for the province, and I'm terrified that what happened the last time his party was in power will happen again if they win.
 
I find myself conceptually drawn to this view, but then typically wind up kicking myself for thinking it when we wind up on the other side of it. Look at what's going on south of the border as a very extreme example of that.

There's zero doubt that our American friends got a monumental change via their last election, and it's forcing both parties to confront their own circumstances and question what they're about and what policies they should pursue. But the country's also falling apart in the meantime and lots of people are getting hurt.

Change certainly offers the chance at renewal, but there's also an unquantifiable opportunity cost to that direction.

I worry about a Conservative government in Ontario for a whole bunch of reasons, not least of which is the fact that I have no idea what they'll do if they actually win. I don't think Patrick Brown is Donald Trump, but I also have no idea what he (and other power brokers in his party) have in mind for the province, and I'm terrified that what happened the last time his party was in power will happen again if they win.

To be fair, there are no indications any type of change here will be anything like what happened down south - the warning signs for which was clear. The context is quite different. In any case, I am not suggesting one vote for a party that so far couldn't even clearly state what they stand (and don't stand) for - that choice will come later.

AoD
 
To be fair, there are no indications any type of change here will be anything like what happened down south - the warning signs for which was clear. The context is quite different. In any case, I am not suggesting one vote for a party that so far couldn't even clearly state what they stand (and don't stand) for - that choice will come later.

AoD

Oh, I totally agree, and wasn't suggesting we'd be in for something that extreme.

My own version of "we have no idea what would happen and the grass isn't always greener" looked something more like important transit projects being canceled or undercut and subsequent commitments avoided, anti-urban policies of many different stripes being foisted upon municipalities, an erosion of the Greenbelt and other environmental and climate change-related laws and regs, and general under-funding of health and education being some of the tradeoffs people would be tacitly endorsing through voting for "renewal."
 
To offer a non-policy specific notion, that touches are our recent talk of hyper-partisanship....

I would really like to see Ontario parties work together on a few, select, major policy issues, so that these things would not change, if the party in power did.

Not a utopian dream. Rather what's happened in Quebec on quite a few issues over the last 15 years.

In Quebec government has changed hands a few times.

But there was social consensus developed on issues ranging from assisted dying to childcare, such that no party upon winning materially altered the public policy on those issues.

Parties clearly need to have points of differentiation beyond "I can do that better than you."

But I see no need to imagine that a change in party amounts to a wholesale repudiation of its major policies every 4 years.

I think it falls upon all parties in the Ontario legislature to stake out some high ground on a few big concerns; and then by all means debate those points that remain in contention, while also
providing for ability for the public to periodically change management w/o throwing out the proverbial bathwater (how's that for mixing up a metaphor?)
 
I'm willing to give the Green Party a chance. The main stream parties are tired and out of ideas.
 
The Liberals have done a lot for the province from a social perspective, investing billions in transit and green energy, for instance. The Conservatives would have to beat them on the economy, though the province's economy isn't faring badly at the moment.

They're probably not going to beat the Liberals on social policy. The Conservatives spend money on ads just to convince people they're not racist or homophobic. I think people are getting tired of the Liberals after their scandals and the high energy prices, but the majority perception might be that there's no better choice.
 
Last edited:
It's more the lack of addressing the structural costs of Ontarios bureaucracy. Specifically the school board issue. We are closing public schools and forcing children to be bused far away when other nearby schools in another board but same neighbourhood or town are not full. If we can amalgamate all 4 public boards into 1 for each region that would be a big efficiency but none of the parties want to touch it - afraid of the Catholic push back. Why do we as a secular society still fund oje religions schools? It's time we made Catholic schools public (which they already are in many areas) and reduce the bureaucracy and repurpose funds to rebuild and upgrade our old schools.

Another area is transit and cities. It's time for Province to give power to cities and towns to raise taxes and to invest in local infrastructure. Let Province tackle the health and education. Cities can build their own transit systems with ability to have a local sales and income tax.

None of the major parties will do this. NDP doesn't support HST increase or tolls. Liberals afraid to add any new taxes before an election. The PCs have not released a platform at all but likely they will not invest as much into transit and focus on highway building.
 
Last edited:
These energy costs play a role in altering our economic competitiveness along with other curveballs like $15 minimum wage and Carbon Pricing.
I have to think that the dramatic 32% rise in minimum wage from now until Jan 2019 will have an impact on business. Imagine if corporate income tax, raw materials or energy costs or other essential costs of business increased by 32% over the same period. Unless profits increase to cover the high costs, something has to give.

cp-ont-minimum-wage.png
 
Last edited:

Back
Top