Black Lives Matter Toronto

[ttk77]

Not sure if these actually have any effect, but there's a petition going around trying to convince the Pride executive to reverse their decision.

https://www.change.org/p/pride-toro...utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

 

[Jaye101]

Shame on Pride caving in to this hate-filled racist anti-anything but black bigots. My boyfriend and I will be skipping Pride events this year.

LOL Hilarious are those who think this is just about Black people.

What some fail to realize is that TODAY, violence is perpetuated against members of the LGBTQ by the police. Visible SEXUAL minorities are overrepresented in the homeless community where they continue to face trauma at the hands of the police unbeknownst to you and your boyfriend living in your condo in Yorkville.

Not only that, it is disrespectful to those who not long ago were terrorized by atrocities inflicted by the police, the bathhouse raids, et cetera. Pride started as a protest, not some love in where the police force can act like it isn't systematically homophobic. Police presence is imperative at Pride but they don't need an entire float. It's disrespectful. Your wounds might not be as fresh, but we have to have empathy when minority groups collectively ask us to respect their scars.

 

[ttk77]

Right, so when the police attempt to change for the better and come out to support us we should say no thanks, go away? Sorry, but I think that's just about the worst approach possible, and appeals to some of our baser instincts. Those scars will heal a lot faster if those who were treated poorly can see those who wronged them try to make things right.

That doesn't mean we sweep the past under the rug or stop pushing to make things better. You use the fact that they're reaching out to pull them closer and let them know how they can do even more. If you truly want to make things better though, you don't turn your backs on an olive branch.

 

[Jaye101]

Right, so when the police attempt to change for the better and come out to support us we should say no thanks, go away? Sorry, but I think that's just about the worst approach possible, and appeals to some of our baser instincts. Those scars will heal a lot faster if those who were treated poorly can see those who wronged them try to make things right.

That doesn't mean we sweep the past under the rug or stop pushing to make things better. You use the fact that they're reaching out to pull them closer and let them know how they can do even more. If you truly want to make things better though, you don't turn your backs on an olive branch.

You think taking their shirts off and dancing on a float changes the historical context of pain and oppression inflicted upon members of the LGBTQ, Black and Indigenous communities? You must also think a float also changes the culture of Homophobia in the police force as well.

Remove the float if it's causing people pain. I'm sure you won't even miss it.

 

[ttk77]

You think taking their shirts off and dancing on a float changes the historical context of pain and oppression inflicted upon members of the LGBTQ, Black and Indigenous communities? You must also think a float also changes the culture of Homophobia in the police force as well.

Remove the float if it's causing people pain. I'm sure you won't even miss it.

Except they're not taking off their shirts and dancing. They're marching in uniform, in a parade to support the rights and freedoms of a group that that uniform has historically oppressed. That's called progress and something we should support in turn. Turning our backs on that because they still have a long way to go just sets us backwards.

 

[Jaye101]

Except they're not taking off their shirts and dancing on a float. They're marching in uniform, in a parade to support the rights and freedoms of a group that that uniform has historically oppressed. That's called progress and something we should support in turn. Turning our backs on that because they still have a long way to go just sets us backwards.

So you'd rather Pride honour the force that was the tool of violence against the LGBTQ, over members of the most vulnerable segment of LGBTQ community themselves?

Listen to minority groups when they speak. Being an Police officer is an occupation. Being a member of a minority group is a reality every second of the day.

 

[ttk77]

So you'd rather Pride honour the force that was the tool of violence against the LGBTQ, over members of the most vulnerable segment of LGBTQ community themselves?

Listen to minority groups when they speak. Being an Police officer is an occupation. Being a member of a minority group is a reality every second of the day.

I would rather Pride use their resources to help heal the rifts in our communities rather than splitting them wider. Exclusion and segregation heals nothing.

 

[Jaye101]

I would rather Pride use their resources to help heal the rifts in our communities rather than splitting them wider. Exclusion and segregation heals nothing.

Exclusion and Segregation applies to people not occupations, and certainly not government mandated systematically oppressive systems. Pride is supposed to be a safe place both physically and mentally for members of the LGBTQ community, and that should be the number one priority.

 

[ttk77]

Sorry. I disagree with you on both counts. I'm going to end my conversation with you there though because I don't see this resolving into anything but a circular argument and I appreciate that things have been kept civil so far.

 

[picard102]

Best outcome now is that Pride loses funding and collapses, leaving room for a less mired community group to take up the mantel.

 

[Jaye101]

Sorry. I disagree with you on both counts. I'm going to end my conversation with you there though because I don't see this resolving into anything but a circular argument and I appreciate that things have been kept civil so far.

Maybe we as a society should focus on why minority groups feel collective violence as a result of systematic discrimination at the hands of the police.

If you're not a minority, you can never understand. All you can do is LISTEN, take notes and do what you can to respect people's experience. If the police were harassing and inflicting violence upon affluent white members of the LGBTQ community, wide spread as is done to visible minority members of the LGBTQ community, more people would be understanding.

We must respect people's history, the history of Pride and why it started. Your fight might be over, but it's your responsibility to stand next to your fellow Canadians regardless of colour and truly try to empathize and understand what lead us here.

Police are not vulnerable minority groups living under the weight of systematic violence. They don't need you to defend them. They are members of a chosen profession for which they have gov't mandated obligations.

Police officers are symbols of systematic violence for the most vulnerable in our society, this space is one that should be safe for them.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Best outcome now is that Pride loses funding and collapses, leaving room for a less mired community group to take up the mantel.

It does seem to have lots its focus, and is now some form of SJW event.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

If you're not a minority, you can never understand. All you can do is LISTEN, take notes and do what you can to respect people's experience. If the police were harassing and inflicting violence upon affluent white members of the LGBTQ community, wide spread as is done to visible minority members of the LGBTQ community, more people would be understanding.

Strongly disagree with this. If the phenomena is real, it is logical, measurable - and can be understood. And you made minorities sound like one monolithic thing, which it certainly isn't. If you claim that others can never understand, I am not sure what empowered you (i.e. anyone taking your position) to speak for everyone since you would not be position to truly understand them either (the logical conclusion of PoMo analysis - the centrality of one's lived experiences and elevating each and everyone's perspective to the level of "truth"). And if people can never understand what it meant unless they have lived through the exact same experiences, why do/would we even bother to talk to one another? Clearly that is untenable.

We must respect people's history, the history of Pride and why it started. Your fight might be over, but it's your responsibility to stand next to your fellow Canadians regardless of colour and truly try to empathize and understand what lead us here.

That's why BLM is part of the event and so it should be, but we are going way beyond inclusion at this point.

AoD

 

[Skeezix]

[...] Police presence is imperative at Pride but they don't need an entire float. [...]

I find this statement incredibly frightening. People appointing themselves arbiters of who does and does not "need" to be in the parade, with a float or otherwise. This desire to control participation in, and the statements made at, Pride is the very antithesis of what Pride is about. Pride has withstood controversial marchers and groups in the past, is stronger for it, and should continue to do so. It should be open and inclusive.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I find this statement incredibly frightening. People appointing themselves arbiters of who does and does not "need" to be in the parade, with a float or otherwise. This desire to control participation in, and the statements made at, Pride is the very antithesis of what Pride is about. Pride has withstood controversial marchers and groups in the past, is stronger for it, and should continue to do so. It should be open and inclusive.

That I don't find frightening - Pride always have control over what's valid and not valid - I mean would we/should allow a bunch of Neo-Nazi skinheads to have a float in the name of inclusion? Or conversion therapy nonsense? No. Clearly as a collective there has to be overriding rules and the power to enforce it. In this case the issue is the justification of rejecting the TPS float I find problematical.

AoD