Accessibility and the TTC

[hawc]

Are all these changes to the platforms for wheelchair ramps in addition to the normal WheelTrans system that currently is out there? I only ask because I've never seen anyone in a wheelchair in the current TTC subway system which has wheelchair accessible elevator and train cars. Anyway, hopefully if we spend all this money to improve wheelchair accessibility the ramps will actually be used by people in wheelchairs and not just mums with oversized strollers.

 

[nfitz]

Are all these changes to the platforms for wheelchair ramps in addition to the normal WheelTrans system that currently is out there?

The idea is to get some of those using WheelTrans onto regular transit, because it's a lot cheaper - even with these modifications.

I only ask because I've never seen anyone in a wheelchair in the current TTC subway system which has wheelchair accessible elevator and train cars.

I have to confess, I haven't seen surprisingly few wheelchairs on the subway. I've seen far more on suburban TTC buses. However most stations aren't wheelchair accessible yet.

I have however been surprised in Vancouver how many wheelchairs I see on the Skytrain and buses there, especially compared to Toronto. So I would assume that wheelchair usage will increase significantly once the system is more accessible.

But what about that guy you saw taking 2 seats with his bags? Did you speak to him? Sometimes I see stuff like that because someone has gotten onto an empty car, is busy with their device, and hasn't realised that car has filled up ...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

nfitz:

I am quite certain you would have experienced bunching mid-day on both Dundas and Carlton. Scheduled service is one thing, lived experience is another.

re: wheelchair

It has AODA in mind, and of course it will enable wheelchair users to utilize the streetcars - whether it will make that much of an impact is an open question.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

He pretended not to hear because he had his headphones in. He never looked up.

And you wouldn't speak louder, wave a hand, move his bags? I've never had that response from someone ... You don't really come across as being that meek here.

I am quite certain you would have experienced bunching mid-day on both Dundas and Carlton. Scheduled service is one thing, lived experience is another.

I've even seen it on Kingston Road with the 20-minute service. But certainly not as frequently as you see it in peak. It's most unusual at 10 pm at night. And do we really want the current 10-minute service then to be cut to 15 minutes? Which means a 20-minute gap because of bunching becomes a 30-minute gap.

It has AODA in mind, and of course it will enable wheelchair users to utilize the streetcars - whether it will make that

Based on what I've observed in Vancouver, where I've frequently seen more people in a wheelchair on a single Skytrain, than I've seen on a Toronto subway in my entire life. Which is quite stunning, given I've only had about a dozen Skytrain rides in the last decade. I'll easily rider than many Toronto subway trains many weeks.

 

[spider]

Is there any statistic on how many wheelchair bound people use the bus routes that are capable of transporting them?
I don't use the TTC very often but I do drive the same streets everyday and have never noticed a wheelchair at a bus stop.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I can't imagine how they would keep track of that info. Anecdotally I have seen consistent usage of accessible buses by those on wheelchair and motorized carts on MT.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

So perhaps the issue is selective decrease in frequencies during periods of the day where bunching occurs?

I don't find off-peak bunching to be predictable. It's normally related to accidents, delays, etc. It's an irregular occurrence, albeit one that may happen frequently.

Yes, where it is a regular occurrence, then something should be done. But I don't think that this is happening in locations where there is currently only an 8-minute frequency.

Accessible vehicles are only part of the solution - and one certainly shouldn't expect miracles so long as key barriers persist.

Agreed! Though TTC has currently scheduled all stations to be accessible by 2025 (the most recent schedule is on the final page of http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...013/March_27/Reports/Old_Mill_Station_Pri.pdf). Looking at the list, at some point you start to hit the critical mass when the majority of the system is accessible. Perhaps 2016 when King, St. Patrick, Bay, and Yorkdale all come on-line (along with others). Perhaps in 2018 when only 13 stations won't be accessible (assuming the SRT is closed by then), and all the streetcar routes are accessible.

I can't imagine how they would keep track of that info. Anecdotally I have seen consistent usage of accessible buses by those on wheelchair and motorized carts on MT.

I'd think the simplest thing is if the driver kept a tally - not sure if they do, but it would hardly be difficult to tick off something, while waiting for a chair to load/unload.

I've seen consistent wheelchair use as well. Particularly when I used to commute on the 25. The peak usage seemed to be outside of rush-hour ... and on occasion I saw more than one wheelchair while riding the same bus (but not actually at the same time). It certainly wasn't unusual to see them at 9:30 AM.

 

[DSC]

Is there any statistic on how many wheelchair bound people use the bus routes that are capable of transporting them?
I don't use the TTC very often but I do drive the same streets everyday and have never noticed a wheelchair at a bus stop.

We were in Victoria last spring and were amazed at the number of people in wheelchairs, walkers and crutches using their public transit. (All buses seemed to be accessible.) It is known as a retirement city and this really brought that home.

 

[RC8]

I always see Wheel-trans mini-buses around, though. I would assume most people using public transit in a wheel chair are relying on that service.

 

[nfitz]

I always see Wheel-trans mini-buses around, though. I would assume most people using public transit in a wheel chair are relying on that service.

I'd assume that too. Hopefully that will change downtown once transit is more accessible.

 

[drum118]

As for accessibility riders on TTC buses, I don't see that many at all.

As for the subway, it lack of elevators that are missing that is stopping accessibility riders from using the system. This goes hand in hand for the buses since the rider can't get off a bus and into a subway stations.

Since the area south of Bloor St is service by streetcars, the accessibility riders can't use that system until 2015 when the new cars are put into service for the first east-west line. It will also depend how the can get to that first line as well taking them to where they want to go to in the first place.

Based on the current new timetable for stations to be accessible, a lot of the Wheel-trans current riders will still use that system until at least 2020. Some may move to normal service depending on the new stations by 2020.

 

[W. K. Lis]

As for accessibility riders on TTC buses, I don't see that many at all.

As for the subway, it lack of elevators that are missing that is stopping accessibility riders from using the system. This goes hand in hand for the buses since the rider can't get off a bus and into a subway stations.

Since the area south of Bloor St is service by streetcars, the accessibility riders can't use that system until 2015 when the new cars are put into service for the first east-west line. It will also depend how the can get to that first line as well taking them to where they want to go to in the first place.

Based on the current new timetable for stations to be accessible, a lot of the Wheel-trans current riders will still use that system until at least 2020. Some may move to normal service depending on the new stations by 2020.

Toronto has 31 TTC Subway stations that are wheelchair accessible as of today, see this link. Compare with seven (7) on the Montréal STM Metro stations that are accessible, see this link.

 

[drum118]

Toronto has 31 TTC Subway stations that are wheelchair accessible as of today, see this link. Compare with seven (7) on the Montréal STM Metro stations that are accessible, see this link.

Really and if so why is St George out of service??

Having one elevator per station fails to meet accessible needs today.

I am aware of the stations, but fail to meet riders needs today and one reason they will continue to use Wheel-Tram for their needs.

Come 2026, expect to see complaints file as well law suites over the lack of the 2nd elevator when the only one goes out of service. I will back these claims since it should be done now regardless of the cost, as the accessibility community have the same rights as you and me to ride transit without a hassle.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Really and if so why is St George out of service??

Having one elevator per station fails to meet accessible needs today.

I am aware of the stations, but fail to meet riders needs today and one reason they will continue to use Wheel-Tram for their needs.

Come 2026, expect to see complaints file as well law suites over the lack of the 2nd elevator when the only one goes out of service. I will back these claims since it should be done now regardless of the cost, as the accessibility community have the same rights as you and me to ride transit without a hassle.

Maybe that's why there are people who are against the city putting in sidewalks in their neighbourhood (link). It could mean they would have to shovel the sidewalks, even if it would make the neighbourhoods more accessible.

 

[Transportfan]

Having one elevator per station fails to meet accessible needs today.

I am aware of the stations, but fail to meet riders needs today and one reason they will continue to use Wheel-Tram for their needs.

Come 2026, expect to see complaints file as well law suites over the lack of the 2nd elevator when the only one goes out of service. I will back these claims since it should be done now regardless of the cost, as the accessibility community have the same rights as you and me to ride transit without a hassle.

Now you want TWO elevators per station!? I think Wheeltrans is the best way to serve handicapped riders, basically because of costly cans-of-worms like this. Also, since some paratransit will always be needed anyways.