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407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

At this point - probably not. There doesn't seem much of a carrot with which to draw them to it.

It's not that bad of a carrot. Both would expect lower operations and capital maintenance costs, and no reduction in capacity.

It's enough that they probably wouldn't stand in the way provided they didn't need to contribute capital.
 
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It's not that bad of a carrot. Both would expect lower operations and capital maintenance costs, and no reduction in capacity.

It's enough that they probably wouldn't stand in the way provided they didn't need to contribute capital.

CN would enjoy a shorter route with elimination of some grades.

The bigger carrot would be a reduction in the capital valuation of the line. Less capital to make the same revenue.

- Paul
 
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Umm, you guys might want to look at this; https://www.enbridgegas.com/DocumentBrowser/GTA Project/B - Routing and Environmental/B-2-1_Attachment 5 updated 20130828.pdf

Work on this project is now well under way with the pipeline placement at Halwest, the Junctions between the Halton & Weston subdivisions - take a look out the window as you pass that location. The pipeline placement looks to be very shallow in this area as it transfers from the north side of the hydro corridor to the south side and then to the north side of the Halton sub. I wouldn't say it forgoes the possibility of a by-pass, but its another complication that will limit routing options and/or escalate costs.
 
Well is it not a fair point that a) the feds should be a partner on improving GO Transit, and b) freight railways are federally regulated and the feds would have more authority in these discussions?

Yes, I was indulging myself in a moment of cynicism (or realism, it's your call).

Arguably Ottawa's hands-off attitude to local commuter and regional rail has been a long-time impediment to not only Ontario but Quebec and BC too. Ottawa sets the rules of engagement between local agencies and the freight railways, but when there is controversy they have usually declared it's a provincial matter and declined to engage. Which is passive aggression if I have ever seen it!

I'm hoping this will change with the latest government, although this has never happened in past Liberal tenure. It will not be an easy transition, as the bureaucracy has been anti-pax rail for decades. The last election sent enough urban MPs to the Liberal caucus, and these folks have seen the issues.

All the same, I do predict that the Province and municipalities will ask for money, too. I'm less certain that I support that.

- Paul
 
Question: Would it be possible to free up the Milton line even before the freight bypass is built? What I mean by this is, if a connection between the CN and CP tracks is built in Milton, would it be possible to divert CP freight trains onto CN tracks through Brampton and Georgetown? This would create the capacity crunch through Brampton even worse, but RER is going to Bramalea, so that can be somewhat mitigated. It would also open up the Milton line to a huge increase in GO service, perhaps even hourly or bi-hourly, which would reduce the pressure on the Kitchener line.

I say this because the freight bypass is likely quite a while away, but I'm wondering if an interim solution to free up at least one of the two lines (Milton) can be accomplished with minimal new infrastructure.
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...s-offer-for-norfolk-southern/article27304614/

I wonder how this would affect CP's willingness to do the Freight Bypass.

On one hand maybe them merging would create a bigger "Goliath" for the province to go up against, but on the other maybe it would open up more tracks through the USA south of Toronto that freight could be sent through instead.

A look at CP's rail network:
Canadian_Pacific_System_Railmap.PNG


NS's network:
Norfolk_Southern_Railway_system_map.svg


Going through upstate New York is an alternative.
 
Even if Canada and US approved the merger, some track divestments might be enforced which would change that map a smidge.
 
On one hand maybe them merging would create a bigger "Goliath" for the province to go up against, but on the other maybe it would open up more tracks through the USA south of Toronto that freight could be sent through instead.

The merger has so many down sides to it, and such a long regulatory path forward, that I'm reluctant to take it seriously. In reality, NS should be buying CP, but Harrison and Ackman have done such an excellent job of pillaging CP's assets that they have a war chest of money saved up. Whereas, NS - a very well run property - has been properly capitalised and so doesn't have the same reserves. He with the most cash wins, I guess.

But yes, the traffic that CP hauls from Chicago to Montreal and then onwards to the US and to the Atlantic would most likely get rerouted to the south of the lakes.

It seems unlikely that CP would tear up much track in Ontario, but CP might use it much differently. So long as Toyota, CAMI, and Honda are producing autos in Ontario, the current route would be needed for at least one train per day. The trackage east of West Toronto to Montreal will be needed for transcontinental freight, although again the volume might fall as some proportion of this could move to a southern route.

The connecting line to Buffalo might gain traffic as the primary distribution path into Ontario, although NS and CSX are already pretty good at forcing traffic to route this way rather than through Detroit (so they get the biggest fraction of the linehaul). I could see CSX demanding greater access into the Ontario market, since traffic that CP turns over to CSX in Buffalo will be grabbed by NS. That bodes poorly for further GO expansion into Hunter Street in Hamilton.

If this happened, any additional trains coming out of Buffalo would turn east and come down the Galt Sub, creating additional conflict with GO, and making a bypass more attractive. The potentially alarming part is not GO but what happens if tonnage increases over the "mountain grade" (it is actually classified as such) between Hamilton and Campbellville. The grades are very steep and it's a difficult line operationally.

If CP traffic falls on the Galt and North Toronto lines, they would be more interested in sharing with GO especially if this leads to GO covering a greater share of the fixed costs. Moving to a bypass as a 'minority' player (with CN holding the control) is likely less attractive, so the shared use scenario seems more likely. The good news is, there would be less freight per day through the center of Toronto, and more room for GO.

Just a bunch of wild speculations.

- Paul
 
This thread is worth a bump, thanks to WislaHD:
GTA mayors' wishlist for federal budget
The 'Missing Link' has been identified as a priority by both Brampton Mayor Linda Jeffrey and Mississauga Mayor Bonnie Crombie.
Now, if the feds funded it, how far can we get on the Freight Bypass within our lifetimes?

Successfully starting but aborting a pre-feasibility study?
Mere EA completion?
Partial bypass? (freeing up Brampton subdivision, but not North Toronto subdivision)?
The whole shebang?
 

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