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407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

I don't feel on this aspect it's a question of honesty, rather it's just a lack of public information and changing dynamics (IE the Agreement). We don't know if a future study will look at adding a third or fourth track and if it'll be on the north or south side. The last public study was from GO in 2014.
They are a public agency, I don't know why it's so hard to get information from them.
c I can't see QP putting anything into this at this time, save for what Metrolinx might have in terms of savings from not doing all the other projects that would otherwise need to be done. Even the Feds wouldn't have to put in that much, perhaps a $1B, (Maybe 2 if the final price doubles from $5B) depending on total costs. I see this being a project for the Infrastructure/Investment Bank, and private funding would be ostensibly in a ratio of 4:1. The Fed portion would guarantee the project has the potent powers of the Railway and Relocation Acts. Union Station was enabled by an act of Parliament:

http://www.cnr-in-ontario.com/Reports/index.html?http://www.cnr-in-ontario.com/Reports/RSR-003.html

Under the Relocations Act, CN can be required, with compensation, to share the track that is theirs. In the event, a third track may or may not be necessary for CN to use as a service siding for local industries. CN's stretch might be acquired (perhaps even likely to be so) by the new Consortium, and then dispatched like TTR is. It would of course require state of the art signalling if it remains dual track and hosting both CN, CP and any other carrier.

Whoa...stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't for a moment expect that. On the other hand, Wynne is about to 'toss Toronto to the wolves' for votes in the 905 region, and is starting to do it already saying 'no' to Toronto's demands for endless project financing.

There's going to be fireworks if not flat out war come the next election. One thing I do see as possible, but it's very hard to know where Brown's real motivation is, but look for partial if not complete privatization of Metrolinx!

I wouldn't necessarily be against that, provisos pending, but wouldn't trust Brown et al to do it. I would trust (with caveats and trepidation) old school OntCons, Bill Davis style, as Metrolinx is underfunded in some respects, overfunded to the point of burning cash in others.

For the massive sums going in, we're not seeing a good yield. Some of the thinking coming out of VIA is much more aligned with where I think Metrolinx should be headed.
Patrick Brown wants the 905. He needs it to win. All day service on all corridors is the fastest way to do that.
 
Under the Relocations Act, CN can be required, with compensation, to share the track that is theirs. In the event, a third track may or may not be necessary for CN to use as a service siding for local industries. CN's stretch might be acquired (perhaps even likely to be so) by the new Consortium, and then dispatched like TTR is. It would of course require state of the art signalling if it remains dual track and hosting both CN, CP and any other carrier.

This consortium thing is, with respect, pure fantasy. CP and CN have declared that they want control of their own tracks. That's how railways are. A bypass will have to give CP its own line, and leave CN with control over its own dispatching.

This aspect is as big a detail as the price. It's a bit irrational, in that cooperation works if you want it to, but that's how railways are. They can't resist the opportunity to play hardball. Control is everything.

- Paul
 
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This consortium thing is, with respect, pure fantasy.
Already been done in Canada, the US, elsewhere. I'll detail examples later.
CP and CN have declared that they want control of their own tracks.
At the end of the day, it's not their decision, save for compensation if a dictum under the Acts causes them demonstrable loss.

A very potent example is Ottawa and the Capital Commission "clearing" yards and tracks from within the National Capital Commission Region. Both CN and CP had to share a common track to access their yards in some cases. The powers under the Relocations Act are not unlike those of various Expropriation Acts, especially the federal one:
Expropriation Act

Here's a quick Google example, I'll find the legal references later:


[...]
Gréber’s Plan for the National Capital
called for the active relocation of industry
and the railways to the periphery to further
embellish and modernize the Capital [...]
http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/sites/default/files/pubs/pfcc_2016-06-15-en-draft-optimized.pdf

Jean Charest heads task force looking to move rail yards out of Winnipeg

CBC News Posted: Jan 14, 2016 8:46 AM CT Last Updated: Jan 15, 2016 10:49 AM CT

A task force headed by former Quebec Premier Jean Charest will look at moving the rail yards out of Winnipeg.

"Moving rail lines out of the city of Winnipeg is a historic opportunity to reshape our capital city for the future," said Manitoba Premier Greg Selinger, after announcing the creation of the task force on Thursday at The Forks — the city's most famous redevelopment of a former rail yard.

The province will invest $400,000 towards the task force's work, he added.

"While work has been underway for many years, today we are taking significant concrete steps forward in efforts to reduce traffic congestion, enhance public safety and create new opportunities for jobs and economic development," Selinger said.
[...]
Long debate

The massive Canadian Pacific Railway yards, which separate the North End from central Winnipeg, have been the subject of relocation discussion for many years.

The non-profit Social Planning Council of Winnipeg has called for those yards to be moved to allow redevelopment in the inner city — new housing, green space, commercial space, recreational facilities and other urban infrastructure.

The CP yards occupy about 110 hectares (280 acres) south of Jarvis Avenue, with another 39 hectares (96 acres) used for the Weston Shops west of McPhillips Street.

According to the Social Planning Council, discussions on relocating the CP Rail yard have gone on since the 1960s. And in the late 1970s, alternative land was identified for a change but the option was not exercised by the City of Winnipeg.

The new task force won't just look at the CP yards, however, but the whole picture in Winnipeg, including the BNSF operation in River Heights. That small yard drew a lot of residents' anger when eight tall metal silos were built in 2012.
CentrePort, northwest of Winnipeg's James Richardson International Airport, has been mentioned as a possible new location for the rail yards. It is an 8,000-hectare inland distribution and warehousing depot that links air, ground and rail transport.
However, that option is still just speculation. No firm discussions have taken place, CentrePort spokeswoman Riva Harrison said in November.

CentrePort is building what is known as a common-use rail facility, to allow multiple rail lines (CN, CP, BNSF) to serve businesses in the area, but "our project is a stand-alone, separate initiative that is about increasing rail-serviced industrial space and attracting new companies to the CentrePort area," Harrison said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/task-force-move-winnipeg-railway-1.3403416

Here is CentrePoint's website opening page. I'm having trouble downloading their legal pages at this time:
http://www.centreportcanada.ca/

Planning begins to move rail lines out of Winnipeg
CBC News Posted: Nov 16, 2015 11:44 AM CT Last Updated: Nov 16, 2015 5:26 PM CT

A working group is set to start as early as next month to plan to move rail lines out of the city of Winnipeg.

The group, which will include Canadian Pacific Railway and Canadian National officials, will put together a detailed study to submit to federal officials, as is required under federal transport laws.

A couple of the shorter lines, such as one in River Heights, will have a shorter timeline, a provincial government official said.

Ultimately the plan is to work towards moving CP's massive yards out of central Winnipeg. Those yards, just north of Higgins Avenue, have been the subject of relocation talks for many years. [...]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/railway-move-winnipeg-1.3321053
 
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A very potent example is Ottawa and the Capital Commission "clearing" yards and tracks from within the National Capital Commission Region. Both CN and CP had to share a common track to access their yards in some cases.

Neither CN nor CP have a presence in Ottawa today. Not much need for cooperation nor potential for operating conflict.


CentrePort is building what is known as a common-use rail facility, to allow multiple rail lines (CN, CP, BNSF) to serve businesses in the area, but "our project is a stand-alone, separate initiative that is about increasing rail-serviced industrial space and attracting new companies to the CentrePort area," Harrison said.

Joint use of a single rail yard for service to local industry. Driven by the railroads' interests, which includes alternate use of the existing real estate. I'm not seeing anything about joint main lines. Nor am I seeing government waving any big sticks - they are just studying. Too soon to say for sure that this is a precedent or bodes well for a joint bypass.

The other viable case study is the Welland-Fort Erie joint use area. Removing bridges over the shipping canal was undoubtedly a government driven initiative, but it's a far less crucial operating point.

- Paul
 
Which is exactly why I wrote:
Is there half hourly service to Hamilton?

You wrote "Lakeshore is wholly owned by Metrolinx." The Lakeshore West line is not wholly owned by Metrolinx. That's why more service all the way to West Harbour or Hamilton Centre is problematic. I didn't realize that was a rhetorical question you were asking.
 
Neither CN nor CP have a presence in Ottawa today. Not much need for cooperation nor potential for operating conflict.
Because the NCC moved them out.
CN, CP NEAR DEAL ON TRACK SHARING
GREGORY S. JOHNSON | Dec 14, 1992 7:00PM EST

Canada's two large railroads, CN North America and CP Rail Systems, are nearing a major cost-cutting agreement that would run both carriers' trains on one 300-mile main line between Montreal and North Bay, Ontario.

Meanwhile, CN has signed an interline agreement with Consolidated Rail Corp. that will cut a day off the travel time between Montreal and Conrail's major freight yard in Selkirk, N.Y. Beginning in January, the two carriers will change crews at Massena, N.Y., but will use the same locomotives, thus enabling the time saving, according to a Conrail spokeswoman.The CN-Conrail pact eliminates an interchange and swap of locomotives at Huntingdon, Quebec, according to a senior Conrail transportation executive.

"Anything that can be done to shorten transit times is good," said Bill Bartley, manager of rail and barge pricing at Reynolds Metals Co. in Richmond, Va. Reynolds ships raw materials from a barge terminal in Becancour, Quebec, to its plant in Roosevelt Town, N.Y., via CN.

Under the proposed CP-CN agreement, the Ottawa Valley Partnership would be formed to own the railroads' parallel single-track lines from Montreal to North Bay, according to John A. Cox, a CP spokesman. The plan must still be approved by the directors of both carriers.

Both railroads said it is too soon to tell how much they would save with the Ottawa Valley agreement, which, like two-man crews, is among several cost- saving measures adopted by both carriers.

The railroads would still compete, but instead of maintaining two lines, they would pay a user fee to the joint company, said John D. Guppy, CN's senior vice president of marketing. "Each railway will have running rights on the surviving line with its own crews and trains," he said during a recent interview with The Journal of Commerce in New York. "The new company will handle all dispatching and maintenance, much like a short line."

In Western Canada, CN operates mainly in the north and CP in the south, but the railroads own duplicate and parallel lines in the East. The lines are so close between Montreal and North Bay that in many areas they almost share the same roadbed.

Analysts estimate that in its eastern service, CN loses an average of 40 Canadian cents (31 U.S. cents) for each dollar of revenue, and that CP is losing 50 Canadian cents on each dollar there.

The losses are much less substantial for the two railroads on their western networks, which account for over 70 percent of their business. "The industry is in jeopardy in Eastern Canada," said Dennis Apedaile, CP Rail's assistant vice president of government and industry affairs in Montreal. "There is too much rail line chasing too little traffic."

The Ottawa Valley plan is considered by many industry observers to be the first of many moves by Canada's two biggest railroads to stem a flow of red ink.

"I think this is what they may have to do more of down the road," said Cyril E. Eckl, director, transportation and distribution at Potash Co. of Saskatchewan Sales Ltd. of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. "You want to have competition, but at the same time, you want to keep both companies healthy."

CN and CP reported losses of C$15.7 million (US$12.5 million) and C$271 million (US$218.4 million), respectively, in the third quarter.

But Richard J. Lande, principal in Montreal-based transportation consultancy Lande Associates, said he believes CN and CP may be crying wolf. ''They've abandoned thousands of miles of branch line, and they've gotten 2.6 percent in productivity gains in the last year. I'm not so sure they're in the dire straits they claim to be in."

At any rate, Messrs. Cox and Guppy said Canada's rail unions are likely to go along with proposals that will keep both carriers operating. "The alternative is to shut them down," Mr. Guppy said. "I think our unions are aware of the financial fragility of the railroads."

CN's pact with Conrail marks the second substantial interline agreement CN has concluded with a U.S. railroad in over a month. In November, CN began interchanging traffic to and from Chicago with Burlington Northern Railroad. The traffic moves over its Duluth, Minn., Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Pacific line between Fort Frances, Ontario, and Duluth.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...e-along-quebec-ontario-route/article29638997/

Nor am I seeing government waving any big sticks - they are just studying.
I never stated a stick is being waved, just the *potential* of a massive one. I'm digging for the legal machinations of the NCC case, which also involved NYC IIRC.

It's too soon to know what the minutiae behind closed doors is.
 
You wrote "Lakeshore is wholly owned by Metrolinx." The Lakeshore West line is not wholly owned by Metrolinx. That's why more service all the way to West Harbour or Hamilton Centre is problematic. I didn't realize that was a rhetorical question you were asking.
In answer to this:
Lakeshore went to half hour service rather quickly. And they weren't even finished expanding the corridor yet.
 
Reference of the Relocation and Crossings Act to Winnipeg (and other locales):
City's rail lines the real problem
By: Dan Lett
Posted: 03/26/2015 3:00 AM | Last Modified: 03/26/2015 12:14 PM | Updates | Comments:
[...]
It never seems to occur to anyone there is federal legislation set aside specifically to address the root of the problem. To be fair, the Railway Relocation and Crossing Act was mentioned repeatedly by former mayoral candidate Robert-Falcon Ouellette as a lever to relocate rail lines and repurpose the land.

Ouellette's grasp of the act and its impact may not have been entirely on the mark, but it is a real thing, and it could, theoretically at least, be the lever needed to rid the city of the rail lines that clog traffic and provoke councillors into wasting millions of dollars on underpasses.

It's only theoretical because the act has not been used in 30 years, not since Regina relocated a core-area rail yard and redeveloped the land. Even so, the act as written is a powerful tool in the hands of a motivated government.

Mary Jane Bennett, a transportation expert with the Frontier Centre for Public Policy, says the RRCA provides municipalities and provinces with the powers to expropriate railway lands. The act requires any relocation plans be financially neutral for the railways; they can neither profit nor suffer extraordinary costs from any plan to move rail lines or yards. If the municipality and province meet these requirements, Ottawa can cover up to 50 per cent of the total costs.

Right now, Bennett is working with White Rock and Surrey in B.C., which are preparing an application under the RRAC to relocate a rail line near the White Rock waterfront. Bennett said the total cost is estimated at nearly $400 million. However, unlike single underpasses or bridges to relieve traffic congestion caused by railway crossings, relocation has multiple benefits, Bennett said.

Removing rail lines and yards from urban centres opens up new and valuable land for redevelopment, she said. It also means dangerous, potentially combustible freight is no longer moving through densely populated communities. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it almost always means faster, more cost-effective operations for the railways, she added.

The White Rock-Surrey application, which could make its way to Ottawa by the end of the year, could ultimately pave the way for a new generation of urban redevelopment. Ottawa would still have to find the money for RRAC projects, and currently the Conservative government seems happy to funnel all infrastructure projects through the Building Canada Fund. And there is not enough money in that fund to make any real contribution to rail-line and yard relocation.

The key lesson for Winnipeg city council is the White Rock-Surrey relocation campaign began with motivated municipalities that were simply tired of living with the noise, mess and danger posed by a rail line running through an urban centre.

Mayor Brian Bowman has talked about changing the culture and mindset of the city and its government. Few gestures would go further in making those changes than stopping the Waverley underpass and other pointless infrastructure projects that seek to go over, under or around the real problem, which is the continued existence of rail lines running through the city.

In his pursuit of a new and improved city hall, Bowman already knows infrastructure needs are great, and taxpayer money is short in supply. And that spending $175 million on a Band-Aid is obscene.

dan.lett@freepress.mb.ca
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/citys-rail-lines-the-real-problem-297619411.html

See also:
CN, CP ho-hum on moving train tracks
Call proposal by government complex, costly, but agree to study
By: Bartley Kives
Posted: 11/18/2015 3:00 AM | Last Modified: 11/18/2015 7:15 AM | Updates | Comments:
[...]Gray said the purpose of the study is to see what lines, yards or shops could be moved -- and what lines could be shared among railways.[...]
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/cn-cp-ho-hum-on-moving-train-tracks-351290241.html
 
Here again are most of the pertinent clauses of the Relocations Act (some are further detailed elsewhere, such as compensation, etc)
[...]
Order following approval
  • 8 (1) For the purpose of carrying into effect a transportation plan accepted by the Agency under section 6, the Agency may, by order, subject to any requirements imposed by or under the Railway Safety Act,
    • (a) require a railway company to permit the locomotives and trains of another railway company or the equipment of a rapid transit or public transit system to be operated over its lines or right-of-way within the transportation study area to which the transportation plan relates on such terms and conditions in respect of compensation as are set out in the financial plan accepted by the Agency and according to such rules as the Agency may prescribe with respect to those operations;

    • (b) require a railway company to operate only trains carrying such class or classes of traffic over such of its lines within the transportation study area to which the transportation plan relates as may be specified by the Agency;

    • (c) require a railway company to build a railway line in such location as may be specified by the Agency within the transportation study area to which the transportation plan relates, or to make any connections between such railway lines or any rapid transit or public transit systems within the transportation study area as may be specified by the Agency; or

    • (d) require the closing of any existing railway crossing at grade level on any railway line within the transportation study area to which the transportation plan relates if the closing thereof is required under the transportation plan accepted by the Agency.
    • [...]
    • http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/R-4/page-2.html#docCont
    Edit to Add: Very short on time here, but it is crucial to mention that the various relevant Acts have been quoted and somewhat itemized in the Muni (spearheaded by Mississauga) IBI Report on the Missing Link.

  • Their mention/reference is not by accident.

 
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