1 Bloor East (Bazis International) for Great Gulf see One Bloor - Real Estate -

asiancolossus said:

I'd like to give investor the benefit of the doubt, although the Kazakh bashing is a commonality. So far investor has exhibited some good contrarian thoughts without bashing the people on this board, something which vultur and his relatives did all the time...

I agree about keeping this board happy and fun, a lot of it seems to be bashing a company that yes is new and perhaps there are justifiable questions as to their ability to complete this project. Unfortunately they didn't do their credibility any service by what they did with the sudden price increase and holding back units like they have.

Bottom line, something potentially very exciting happening to update Yonge and Bloor! Let us hope for the best!

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Here here AC! Progress is progress indeed. My hope is simply that this important corner be developed in a manner that truly reflects yet enhances the community it surrounds. Minto Midtown, ROCP, 18 Yorkville, 100 Yorkville, The Benvento, The Hazelton, several of the Freed buildings (in theory at least), Tip Top Lofts, the Context project in High Park (pretty much anything by Context) are not only welcome additions to the skyline but all contribute to a stronger and more vibrant community. My sense is that the proposal here will do nothing of the sort and end up being something more appropriate in Vancouver or Dubai then the Leaf Nation.

Pity.

investor said:

Oh please. These guys are hardly a bunch of struggling immigrants FOB looking for a break! At best they are another giant foreign capital syndicate, at worst...

The criticism (beaten to an ugly, painful and unrelenting death) is that they have no readily identifiable track record on the local landscape that would earn they the credibility required for any *legit* developers to believe that they are capable of creating a super-structure on the level of the one proposed.

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Investor, your criticism of Bazis seems to run deeper than their mere lack of experience in Toronto for the superstructure. If Torontonians and Canadians would never allow foreign companies to do any kind of business or develop any kind of project here because they only had experience overseas, and taken as some scam artist because of it, a big chunk of our productivity would collapse. While I understand your skepticism, what makes a developer any less competent with foreign experience than one who has considerable experience here? You have to take it on a case by case basis. You've called these people scam artists largely based on their lack of Toronto experience and sales tactics. What basis do you have to utterly be 100% sure of their incompetence? I have not seen any hard evidence to that effect, just speculation.

asiancolossus said:

Investor, your criticism of Bazis seems to run deeper than their mere lack of experience in Toronto for the superstructure. If Torontonians and Canadians would never allow foreign companies to do any kind of business or develop any kind of project here because they only had experience overseas, and taken as some scam artist because of it, a big chunk of our productivity would collapse. While I understand your skepticism, what makes a developer any less competent with foreign experience than one who has considerable experience here? You have to take it on a case by case basis. You've called these people scam artists largely based on their lack of Toronto experience and sales tactics. What basis do you have to utterly be 100% sure of their incompetence? I have not seen any hard evidence to that effect, just speculation.

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You're right, it is only speculation. Google is a useful tool. I can't easily trace their supposed success there back to the people behind this building. I'd love you to show me the error of my assumptions. Perhaps my skepticism is misplaced.

I don't believe that they are scam artists- I believe that they are very inexperienced and I believe that their proposal and their sales tactics are not in the best interests of the city given the importance of the location to its citizens.

Developers do not build buildings. They just pay for them. Engineers, architects and construction companies build the building.

Based upon what we know about sales, paying for this building is not going to be a problem (a large percentage of units sold = bank financing). So unless you know something about the other people who are actually 'constructing' the building, speculation about them not being able to 'build' a building is just more worthless internet dribble.

alklay said:

Based upon what we know about sales, paying for this building is not going to be a problem (a large percentage of units sold = bank financing). So unless you know something about the other people who are actually 'constructing' the building, this is just more worthless internet dribble

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I don't disagree in this case, but it's also useful to remember that many people said the same thing about the impossibility of Stinson's failure.

The thing though is while they may not build the buildings, do they do the research into the builders in order to make a success choice?

*COUGH* Concord *COUGH*

I'm not against international companies coming into Toronto, just weary of any over-hyped product. The tried and true tactic is to start small and build up. Instead what we have are new companies coming in and trying to build the next big thing right off the bat and if history has shown us, it is with little research on the builders bidding.

However, if they do manage to build a spectacular thing right off the bat, the fame would definately help them get a huge headstart.

Investor, your skepticism is not misplaced, what I am trying to say here is that your previous posts were gung ho 150% sure that this is not going to fly and that there is no way Bazis is a reputable company. In the end you could still be right but you could be wrong as well. Google is a great search engine for many things, not the least of which you can go onto Bazis website and check out their previous developments in Europe and the Middle East. This company goes big with their developments over there, and there is nothing I can find that there was anything that went awry with any of their projects. I am unable to disprove your theory as much as you are unable to disprove that this project is on the up and up. Time will be the only factor that will prove whether this will work or not. Could this be the next Stinson King West? Sure. Could this be a landmark building that improves the entire Bloor Yonge corridor? That is a possibility too. It seemed to me Stinson made a lot of bad errors in judgement, you could tell that he was overextended money wise, which shouldn't be a problem with the sales here. I recall 1 King West was being hyped on infomercials non stop on TV, with a guarantee of big returns...now THAT to me was a scam waiting to happen.

AndreaPalladio said:

I don't disagree in this case, but it's also useful to remember that many people said the same thing about the impossibility of Stinson's failure.

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Nobody who had any credibility alked about the impossibility of his failure.

There are just too many wide and deep differences between this and Stinson with the most obvious one being financing. With a high percentage of sales (and the speed of sales. Didn't Stinson take 4 years before he sold anywhere near 65%?), and the conventional nature of the development (condos, as opposed to whatever the heck Stinson was selling), financing will not be an issue. With money, comes the ability to build. Blue Crystal proves that they are able to collect deposits, get financing and hire a contractor to build a building. No real difference here. I have seen no evidence to conclude that they will not be able to pull this off. Hype and the amount of it has nothing to do with anything.

Amen Alklay.

It's foolish to blindly say that the project will be built without problems. Every project has some risk attached, and this one, perhaps more than an average amount.

But it's foolish, or more than foolish (stupidity? willful blindness? bigotry based on place of origin? a childish wish to just see others fail so that you can laugh at them?), to downgrade the project or the developers as seen in a number of posts on this thread.

I am reasonably confident that this project, and Crystal Blu, will get built and three or four years from now, Bazis will be the toast of the town, at least in land development circles. They may need to spend some time rebuilding their bridges to the agent community, but that's a different, and relatively minor, story.

I agree. If they can get this built, all the more power to them. And as for the agents, well, boo hoo hoo.

Observer Walt said:

Bazis will be the toast of the town, at least in land development circles. They may need to spend some time rebuilding their bridges to the agent community, but that's a different, and relatively minor, story.

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Wow are you out to lunch!

This seems like an ideal building for International Flipper to sink money into because of the economics of the jittery U.S. housing market, the international reach of Bazis, and lower prices for property here. I think our boy goes where the flipping is easiest - if it wasn't here it would be somewhere else; "Toronto experience" may be irrelevant if locals aren't significant buyers.

Urban Shocker said:

This seems like an ideal building for International Flipper to sink money into because of the economics of the jittery U.S. housing market, the international reach of Bazis, and lower prices for property here.

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Ah, the real estate broker's favorite falsehood.

Prices are lower because rents are lower. I'm so tired of hearing this ridiculously flawed argument. (no offence US)

Flipper Boy's Investor IQ is as negative as his cash flow. PIGS GET SLAUGHTERED

Well, some are arguing that 1 Bloor East doesn't have any "real" hope of actually getting built, so maybe not...

There’s a sceptic in every crowd. Someone proposes a project that someone else has trouble understanding so they start a rumour that its a hoax. If this is a hoax, someone has spent a lot of money, gone to a lot of trouble and created a gigantic paper trail to do so. I don’t see evidence that would lead to such a conclusion.