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Peterborough Commuter Rail

Not surprised at #2

People who work in the railway industry have been saying from the start that this upgrade was really to help CP improve capacity between Montreal and Toronto.
 
Um, the rail companies want money from the government to rebuild their lines? Yet they're total knobs when it comes to increasing commuter rail service. Eff them.
 
I can't see VIA taking over anything because they are perpetually undercapitalised both politically and financially. The Western Tories think it's a big waste and a Liberal icon and the Liberals let people like Collenette loose who just scare people with multi-billion dollar projects rather than steady investments like more track, hourly service and reliable equipment.

I'd prefer to go the other way and expand Provincial rail and take routes back from VIA that aren't strategic corridors like Windsor-Quebec, and not just in the Toronto area but expanding Northland with say Ottawa-North Bay-Sudbury too but putting in the ability to book through-tickets to and from connecting VIA services. Basically VIA should only be running the service if it can support VIA1.

Rather than having VIA running economy service from Kitchener to Toronto or Peterborough to Toronto I'd prefer to see them reinforce the Corridor, such as an early Kingston-Brockville-Ottawa train which would pick up commuters from the Smiths Falls area - the first EB train from Kingston leaves about 9.35 - and following that an early Montreal to help people catch earlier Dorval/Trudeau flights. Similarly, the Maple Leaf VIA should be direct Toronto-Niagara Falls with onboard immigration control as on the Vancouver-Seattle route with intermediate stops handled by a provincial train.
 
If the airline industry becomes something only for the rich, then the demand for long-distance railway travel will boom.

If that happens then the government would be best off nationalizing the railway network (CN and CP and the regional lines) in order to rationalize it and drastically improve passenger services.

They could offer trackage rights to the freight companies to make the deal sweeter to them.

Oh, and don't talk about Stephen Harper not liking it. He'll be an Alberta backbencher by then.
 
I agree with most that passenger rail in Ontario is pretty disfunctional. And there could be a lot of benefit in rearranging who delivers what type of services. There are lots of ideas, many of which seem good at first, if only because what exists today is so inadequate.

Really though the most important thing at the moment is simply getting infrastructure built. It is hard to tell just what customer preferences will dictate in terms of whether Peterborough would be better served by GO or VIA until you actually get services up and running. Same is true of other markets like Kitchener or even Niagara Falls. But without the proper backbone and a network that can support regular frequencies and not be subject to constant delays due to freight traffic, none of the details matter much.

Hopefully something positive comes of all this. And hopefully it involves returning to the basics of building a rail network which means building and/or upgrading track capacity, giving passenger services priority or equal access over track space, and making the network as flexible as possible. (Of course intercity, high speed service is different, but the same basic principles apply to it too).

Edit: I would also add that I think lines like this (at least beyond Peterborough) are perfect places to make investments that can benefit both freigh and passenger rail services. Adding freight capacity could be of benefit to industries and businesses in smaller communities and as long as passenger rail was given proper priority you could also introduce some passenger rail service too these areas as well. Service a few times a day would probably be feasible and beneficial. And hopefully those who want better passenger rail service start speaking up and pushing the idea with the same effort that freigh companies push their case.
 
Rainforest

urbanfan89 said:
If the airline industry becomes something only for the rich, then the demand for long-distance railway travel will boom.

If that happens then the government would be best off nationalizing the railway network (CN and CP and the regional lines) in order to rationalize it and drastically improve passenger services.

They could offer trackage rights to the freight companies to make the deal sweeter to them.
Click to expand...

If the passenger long-distance railway travel booms, why bother nationalizing profitable enterprises? With customers bucks flowing in, they will rationalize the services a lot faster and more efficiently than the government.

I would understand nationalizing sections of rail within Toronto and other big cities for enhanced commuter / REX services, due to noncompetitive nature of such services. But long-distance works pretty well in private hands.
 
actually for a Tory govt I'm surprised VIA didn't get closed down so the money to refurb the F40s and LRCs has been a bit of a pleasant surprise. I suspect that's the desire to win seats in Ont. and Que. and that the ex-Reformers aren't liking it much.
 
Rainforest said:
If the passenger long-distance railway travel booms, why bother nationalizing profitable enterprises? With customers bucks flowing in, they will rationalize the services a lot faster and more efficiently than the government.
Click to expand...

Because if private enterprise takes over long distance passenger rail service one of the first things they will do is cut most every stop between major centers. One of the benefits of a nationalized rail service is that it provides the best chance for smaller markets to receive service.

Not too say that the private shouldn't have a role to play in long distance passenger rail. When a serious investment is made in high speed rail service partnerships with the private sector should absolutely be undertaken and would provide a lot of benefit. But the public sector should still be the primary actor in delivering services and ensuring that not just those living in the largest cities get service.
 
Not surprised this is proceeding. If you look at the that document the feds and Ontario signed last week to get the $6 billion moving it had an appendix noting 3 principles. Transit, some other motherhood item, and the Peterborough commuter train.

Basically Flaherty is blackmailing Ontario to get the train to his and his wife's riding.

The guy should be tossed out of office. Not since Maurice Duplessis have I seen such blatant corruption.
 
^The whole plan does smell of political pandering and I am not a fan of that. But what else is new in the world of politics?

This is one of those cases where instead of smashing the idea in hopes that it can all be rewritten from the beginning, why not make the most of it? Consider this. There are 3 groups who currently have an interest in rail investments. One in Ottawa where the idea of commuter rail to Smiths Falls is being explored. Another with CP Rail looking to increase freight capacity between Smiths Falls and Peterborough. And of course the GTA which wants to develop commuter services between Peterborough and Toronto.

Why not develop a plan that works for all these groups and turn the project into an upgrade of rail service from Toronto to Ottawa via Peterborough, Havelock, Perth, Smiths Falls, Carleton Place and onto Ottawa with a few more commuter stations in the two major centers. You can electrify the urban portions, ensure that freight upgrades also allow for passenger rail considerations, and also throw in a new long distance line from Ottawa to Toronto that will serve smaller, but mostly new markets and communities.

If the goal of rail/transit advocates is to really improve service and add new markets then there needs to be less soap box preaching and single track (no pun intended) visions, and more playing the political game and being willing to think a little differently.
 
AnarchoSocialist said:
If the goal of rail/transit advocates is to really improve service and add new markets then there needs to be less soap box preaching and single track (no pun intended) visions, and more playing the political game and being willing to think a little differently.
Click to expand...

+1

Like it or not, this is the way things work in Canada right now. Hopefully the next generation will change the way things are done, but we have to play ball if we want to win.
 
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