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unimaginative2 said:
...They go after completely different markets. A frequent-stop GO or TTC service will attract the same people who are riding the Airport Rocket today. An airport express service will attract people who are now taking cabs.
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Thank you. To anybody who has travelled for business, this should be painfully obvious. See my explanation above. After all, how many Londoners travelling for a vacation will use Heathrow Express instead of the Tube? Yet, the HE does quite well....because it attracts business customers who are willing to pay more. In the Heathrow context it's quite remarkable because Heathrow Connect plies the route for less than half the price (with a trip time that's only 10 mins longer). Yet, many passengers are willing to fork over 32 pounds to get there by the fastest way possible (15 mins HE vs. 25 mins HC vs. 45 mins 5 zone Tube ride vs. god knows how long by taxi in London traffic).

cacruden said:
TTC, yes, GO no - it would take away passengers with a subsidized service.
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Perhaps GO might steal a few pax but there will be a limit. Ever tried carrying luggage on GO during rush hour? I am willing to bet after having that experience once most will fork over the extra 10 bucks and take Blue 22 or the Airport Express.
 
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TOareaFan said:
Shortly after that post last night (probably around 7 pm) I found myself crawling along the Gardiner westbound and a GO Train passed me........because of the post it was fresh in my mind so I made a point of guessing how well used that train was.....honest....maybe (generously) 15% occupied....that is a Wednesday night just after rush.....we probably all have our own definitions of "well used"...fair enough.
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It's really hard to judge occupancy from the outside. I've used the local Lakeshore that goes westbound at around 7 pm, and it's been more than 15% full leaving Union. 7 pm is still quite early ... I could believe 15% for the later trains (11 pm, midnight, 1 AM). In fact at around 7 pm, you'd see both the local, and an express to Clarkson - I doubt they'd have 2 trains leaving Union within 8 minutes, if they were only 15% full. There's also a 7 pmish westbound to Milton and another to Brampton ... though I'm assuming that you'd have seen the GO train west of where those turn north.
 
nfitz said:
It's really hard to judge occupancy from the outside. I've used the local Lakeshore that goes westbound at around 7 pm, and it's been more than 15% full leaving Union. 7 pm is still quite early ... I could believe 15% for the later trains (11 pm, midnight, 1 AM). In fact at around 7 pm, you'd see both the local, and an express to Clarkson - I doubt they'd have 2 trains leaving Union within 8 minutes, if they were only 15% full. There's also a 7 pmish westbound to Milton and another to Brampton ... though I'm assuming that you'd have seen the GO train west of where those turn north.
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I am sure it was the Lakeshore train and I am sure that I do not have, either, the vision or mental acuity to state categorically that it was 15%....but it was more empty than full (significantly so) and, I agree, that is not that late....I can only imagine what the other later trains look like! Point is, GO really is a commuter service which, on the Lakeshore line, gets a boost on event nights/days at ACC, Rogers Centre and BMO Field......it is not a significant "regional" rail service which has people buzzing around at all hours of the day going on junkets to different places in the region (the way European services are).....people still use their cars for that and, likely, will for the foseeable decades.

p.s.

I have, on ocassion, ridden the 6:45 train on the Georgetown line and would guess that it is usually around 20% capacity.....it gets hurt, obviously, in that people going to Brampton, Mt. Pleasant and Georgetown have to get off at Bramlea and switch to buses which are semi-local in nature and turn the trip into a longer one than a direct bus would be (so I imagine late workers are passing on that train to catch the next bus....example, going to Brampton the 6;45 train/bus combo has a travel time of 57 minutes the 7:15 p.m. bus direct to Brampton has a travel time of 40 minutes......so you get an extra 30 minutes at the grindstone and arrive home 13 minutes later....gaining 17 minutes for you!....and you don't have to switch modes part way!)...but, still, we are kidding ourselves if we think we are at the point where off-peak trains on any of our commuter lines will be full soon.
 
TOareaFan said:
No but it would indicate how our rail companies/governing bodies would operate it. I would imagine (but don't know ) that there are different standards for how much traffic any one line can handle....it was an honest question based on the observation that we don't seem to have similar service/traffic on any of our lines to those around the world...so I am not as comfortable as you are that it would be run/handled like similar lines around the world....so I was asking if there are examples closer to home that might be more indicative.....I had already said that if there were the ability to add Blue 22, Express GO to the Airport and full everyday GO commuter service then I did not have an issue/argument with GO going into the terminal....if, however, Blue 22 and GO to the Airport meant that the commuter further up the line did not get the full benefit of the infrastrucutre investment then I would revert to my original position....Blue 22 and VIA into the terminal and full GO service connected via people mover.

Sometimes a question is just that ;)
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I can be done, that's all I'm saying. What Metrolinx is proposing for several of the GO lines doesn't exist at all in Toronto or the rest of Canada, and it's rare in the United States. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Doesn't GO own the tracks in that corridor now?

kEiThZ said:
Thank you. To anybody who has travelled for business, this should be painfully obvious. See my explanation above. After all, how many Londoners travelling for a vacation will use Heathrow Express instead of the Tube? Yet, the HE does quite well....because it attracts business customers who are willing to pay more. In the Heathrow context it's quite remarkable because Heathrow Connect plies the route for less than half the price (with a trip time that's only 10 mins longer). Yet, many passengers are willing to fork over 32 pounds to get there by the fastest way possible (15 mins HE vs. 25 mins HC vs. 45 mins 5 zone Tube ride vs. god knows how long by taxi in London traffic).
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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Nobody's arguing against a private line per se, we're arguing against a the lack of a public line. Heathrow is actually a good model - there's a local public option and a private express option.
 
MisterF said:
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Nobody's arguing against a private line per se, we're arguing against a the lack of a public line. Heathrow is actually a good model - there's a local public option and a private express option.
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See post #755 and #759 arguing against private sector participation in delivering an airport rail link.
 
So if GO is going to go to the airport as well, is it really necessary for Blue 22 to stop at locations other than those with connections (ie Bloor)? Adding stops would detract from Blue 22's effectiveness. It's starting to look like this demand for a Blue 22 stop at Weston is excessive.
 
Is there already a GO that goes to the airport? I notice on theirwebsite there's only a bus and no train and it seems complicated with all the transfers. It doesn't even seem to go downtown. You gotta take it to RHC first and then transfer. It's rather complicated with all the transfers and moving around luggages. If you take the brampton one, it goes to Yorkdale, you still have to transfer to downtown and move your luggage around. If GO implements a direct route downtown with few stops then Blue 22 would be redundant.

Brampton Local, Hwy 27 & Hwy 427 Express GO Bus service

* This route serves Toronto’s Yorkdale and York Mills. Both locations offer connections to the Toronto Transit Commission and several intercity bus carriers.
* To the west, this route travels to central locations in Bramalea and Brampton.
* See Brampton Local, Hwy 27 & Hwy 427 Express GO Bus service route and schedule information.

Airport Express GO Bus service

* This route serves Square One GO Bus Terminal in Mississauga. Square One offers connections to Mississauga Transit.
* Some trips also serve the Richmond Hill Centre. The Richmond Hill Centre offers connections to York Region Transit and VIVA.
* See Airport Express GO Bus service route and schedule information.

About taking the TTC route to the airport. I can say it's hell if you're a passenger. All those stops will take forever to get to your destination. Also the crowd of regular passengers also taking the bus. Then there's the problem of lugging your luggage around. However if you just have a hand bag then it's not a big deal.

I admit I don't like to spend much on transportation. In HK I would take the longer and cheaper route. But most usually take the airport express. If you take the cheaper route it does come with inconvenience of having to carry your luggage around every time there's a change of method or station change. Staying at Tsing Yi Island which is near the airport is okay. But if I stayed further like Kowloon or HK, I would rather take the airport express and avoid the crowds, station change and having to move my luggage on and off.
 
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AKS said:
Is there already a GO that goes to the airport? I notice on theirwebsite there's only a bus and no train and it seems complicated with all the transfers. It doesn't even seem to go downtown. You gotta take it to RHC first and then transfer.
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Yes there is GO to the airport...as you point out, it is GO bus not train (probably because there are no tracks into the airport it would be a bumpy ride!).....although, given how many GO train trips get "extended" by a bus connection, I have often wondered why there is not a GO bus waiting to meet every GO train arriving at Malton which would take people directly from Malton to the Terminals.

Not sure why you think the buses you listed mean that you have to go to Richmond Hill to connect to the TTC.....the "Brampton Local" bus goes east from the airport to Yorkdale then York Mills subway stations.

I think the bus going to Richmond Hill is for different purposes/audience and no one expects people to go to RHC to connect to Viva to connect to TTC....if you currently want to ride GO to the TTC just take the Brampton/Bramalea bus eastbound.
 
TOareaFan said:
Not sure why you think the buses you listed mean that you have to go to Richmond Hill to connect to the TTC.....the "Brampton Local" bus goes east from the airport to Yorkdale then York Mills subway stations.
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Yes, you could take TTC from Yorkdale south, but you still need to move your luggage to make the transfer. Also during Rush hour, taking TTC with luggage is crazy. You'll be stuffed like sardines. Plus there are several stops. If there's a direct route that gets you there faster and more room to sit, I'm sure that's the selling point. People won't mind paying a bit more for comfort, convenience and speed especially if your rushing for a plane or tired from a plane ride. Also avoids problems with traffic jams and snow conditions (assuming the tracks are cleared of snow).
 
Oh okay I'll change my statement then...not very many of us are arguing against the private train per se....

kEiThZ said:
So if GO is going to go to the airport as well, is it really necessary for Blue 22 to stop at locations other than those with connections (ie Bloor)? Adding stops would detract from Blue 22's effectiveness. It's starting to look like this demand for a Blue 22 stop at Weston is excessive.
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That thought has occurred to me too. Really there should be a public transit line stopping in Weston so that the private line can go nonstop if it wants. Looks like they tried to appease the Weston concerns while still making their private sector friends happy by not providing a public service.
 
Stop the madness and just have Bombardier build and service a monorail system direct from Union by the side of the waterfront rail corridor and up the 427 to the airport.It would be a much quicker way to get there.This system is environmentally/eco friendly, driverless,cheaper to build,you could have 6-8 stations in between which would benefit local commuters,and we can have it up and running in 3-4 years.Plus why not support a Canadian company with their 36 M-VI monorail cars.
 
Automation Gallery said:
Stop the madness and just have Bombardier build and service a monorail system direct from Union by the side of the waterfront rail corridor and up the 427 to the airport.It would be a much quicker way to get there.This system is environmentally/eco friendly, driverless,cheaper to build,you could have 6-8 stations in between which would benefit local commuters,and we can have it up and running in 3-4 years.Plus why not support a Canadian company with their 36 M-VI monorail cars.
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This is an idea i can get behind... :rolleyes:
 
Automation Gallery said:
Stop the madness and just have Bombardier build and service a monorail system direct from Union by the side of the waterfront rail corridor and up the 427 to the airport.It would be a much quicker way to get there.This system is environmentally/eco friendly, driverless,cheaper to build,you could have 6-8 stations in between which would benefit local commuters,and we can have it up and running in 3-4 years.Plus why not support a Canadian company with their 36 M-VI monorail cars.
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SNC-Lavalin is a Canadian company, too.

In any case, this is more of a Shelbyville idea... (I can't remember, has this joke already been made in this thread?)
 
Automation Gallery said:
Stop the madness and just have Bombardier build and service a monorail system direct from Union by the side of the waterfront rail corridor and up the 427 to the airport.It would be a much quicker way to get there.This system is environmentally/eco friendly, driverless,cheaper to build,you could have 6-8 stations in between which would benefit local commuters,and we can have it up and running in 3-4 years.Plus why not support a Canadian company with their 36 M-VI monorail cars.
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That's kinda how Scarborough got stuck with the RT. No thanks.
 
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