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Rob Ford's Toronto

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I like the subway plan though.
I people in Toronto are short sighted.
LRT will solve some problem in the short run, but in the long run, it creates more problems.
It is difficult to take out the LRT and rebuild a subway in the future if the capacity is not enough.
Building LRT will satisfy some people's desire to have some new transit system.
Time will prove that Ford is right about the subway.
People suggest the LRT because they want to keep their seats. If they need to choose between their job and the city's future, they will of course choose their job. It is human nature. Ford is the only one who risk his seat for the city. The reason is that he do not need to worry about his seat. He wants to be major because he wants a better future for the city. He is the only one who will choose the city's future over his seat.

Sprawling suburbs don't have enough density to support subways, and a tunnel here would cost in the range of billions. That money would be much better spent improving transit in other parts of the city that really need it. Throwing it all behind a single project that will be underused (like she sheppard subway) is a big mistake.

Ford doesn't care about the city or its future, he cares about people not being inconvenienced while driving. Otherwise why did he promise during election-time that he'd replace streetcars with BUSES? Not subways, buses. He'd use a more polluting costlier less comfortable mode of transportation just so that it's easier (though in reality it isn't) for cars to make right turns.
 
I like the subway plan though.
I people in Toronto are short sighted.
LRT will solve some problem in the short run, but in the long run, it creates more problems.
It is difficult to take out the LRT and rebuild a subway in the future if the capacity is not enough.
Building LRT will satisfy some people's desire to have some new transit system.
Time will prove that Ford is right about the subway.
People suggest the LRT because they want to keep their seats. If they need to choose between their job and the city's future, they will of course choose their job. It is human nature. Ford is the only one who risk his seat for the city. The reason is that he do not need to worry about his seat. He wants to be major because he wants a better future for the city. He is the only one who will choose the city's future over his seat.

So, during the heat of an election, Rob Ford makes the unrealistic promise that he can build subway lines along Eglinton and Sheppard at no extra cost to the taxpayer, and he's the principled politician willing to put his career on the line? Meanwhile, all the councillors who support LRT are somehow selfishly doing so to score political points? Despite the fact that many of the LRT's greatest supporters will not be getting any lines in their wards?
 
Sprawling suburbs don't have enough density to support subways.

Rosedale was once considered a spraling suburb... Kennedy Station, Finch, York University/Vaughan are all still sprawling suburbs.

You have to offer efficient and fast public transportation alternatives to get people to get out of their cars.


Perhaps LRTs can go underground at major intersections? Is that a more feaseable idea?
 
I like the subway plan though.
I people in Toronto are short sighted.
LRT will solve some problem in the short run, but in the long run, it creates more problems.
It is difficult to take out the LRT and rebuild a subway in the future if the capacity is not enough.
Building LRT will satisfy some people's desire to have some new transit system.
Time will prove that Ford is right about the subway.
People suggest the LRT because they want to keep their seats. If they need to choose between their job and the city's future, they will of course choose their job. It is human nature. Ford is the only one who risk his seat for the city. The reason is that he do not need to worry about his seat. He wants to be major because he wants a better future for the city. He is the only one who will choose the city's future over his seat.


a subway is better in the long run; however, don't think for a minute that Fraud's decision was based on anything similar to what you suggested.

RC8 is correct that for Fraud, his desire is to make it easier for drivers.
elimination of bike lanes on Jarvis Street, at 4 times the cost to put in the first place, is a prime example.
all for what ... 2 -5 minutes delay. btw, he didn't re-instate the parking along Jarvis too.
 
I like the subway plan though.
I people in Toronto are short sighted.
LRT will solve some problem in the short run, but in the long run, it creates more problems.
It is difficult to take out the LRT and rebuild a subway in the future if the capacity is not enough.
Building LRT will satisfy some people's desire to have some new transit system.
Time will prove that Ford is right about the subway.
People suggest the LRT because they want to keep their seats. If they need to choose between their job and the city's future, they will of course choose their job. It is human nature. Ford is the only one who risk his seat for the city. The reason is that he do not need to worry about his seat. He wants to be major because he wants a better future for the city. He is the only one who will choose the city's future over his seat.

How can you talk about subways when we all know the people of Toronto don't want to pay for them? In every poll I've seen, the majority are against raising taxes, paying tolls or any other measure to pay for it. You can't have a serious discussion about building more subways, until Torontonians are ready to pay for it. Since they are not, we need to compromise and I think Transit City is that compromise. If any subway is needed, it's the downtown relief line and I don't see that happening soon, the way this city is headed.

We already are in the worst position (traffic wise) in North America. Our downtown subways are over crowded and yet, we are building huge condos everywhere, which will only make our transit problems worse. Does this make sense, for the city with the worst transit problems in North America? I think it's insane. We are seriously heading down a danger path and our politicians are turning a blind eye too it, just looking out for their own best interests. Transit planning needs to be taken out of the hands of city council and made independently by transit experts. Our present system is just disastrous.
 
You can't have a serious discussion about building more subways, until Torontonians are ready to pay for it.

Exactly. Opponents to TC like to characterize it as a non-optimal solution, and in a sense it is, but it is (was) a reasonable, practical solution, one that had real money behind it. Ford's Sheppard fantasies are nothing but pipe dreams, without any financial substance. And anyone who wants to talk subways should be clear how they will be paid for, or there's just no reason to take them seriously.

As usual, one shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Sometimes a not-perfect-but-good solution is all you can get.
 
It is difficult to take out the LRT and rebuild a subway in the future if the capacity is not enough.

As I have said in another thread - both Yonge and Bloor lines were replacement of surface rail. The main impediment to building a subway wasn't what as there before - but the cost of building subway. In fact, one can argue having an LRT there - and the increase in density that enables - will be the best catalyst for increasing the demand for additional capacity, and hence, subways.

Ford is the only one who risk his seat for the city. The reason is that he do not need to worry about his seat. He wants to be major because he wants a better future for the city. He is the only one who will choose the city's future over his seat.

Actually no, if he is willing to risk his seat over this issue he would have suggested the myriad of additional revenue sources that would enable his scheme to be put in place. Making popular promises (that you can get subways without paying for it) isn't risking anything.

AoD
 
Rosedale was once considered a spraling suburb... Kennedy Station, Finch, York University/Vaughan are all still sprawling suburbs.

You have to offer efficient and fast public transportation alternatives to get people to get out of their cars.


Perhaps LRTs can go underground at major intersections? Is that a more feaseable idea?

So many of the arguments on this board are like "Here is a stupid thing the TTC did once. Therefore the TTC should spend money on my stupid idea too." I would put the whole Vaughan-vs-Sheppard-vs-RHC-vs-Sherway subway extension debate into this class.

(Yes, it is ridiculous that Rosedale has TWO subway stations. But I guess they were pretty cheap ones to build.)
 
Miller took a lead on the transit file, presented a coherent plan, got council on his side, and lobbied Queen's Park to provide funding. Ford has allowed many of his supposed allies undermine him (e.g. Chong and Stintz). He's provided very little leadership other than throwing out blanket decrees now and then, essentially saying "I promised such and such during the election, so we need to make it happen. I don't care how or when, just do it!" As a result, the transit file is falling apart. There's absolutely no certainty on what the city wants. Plans keep changing and councillors keep switching positions. As the province gets ready to prepare major austerity measures, Toronto seems to be doing everything it can to make its transit funding look like an easy kill.
Miller pushed for a Sheppard subway extension his first term and lost to Spadina, and most of his Transit City plan from his second term is either dead or in limbo, so his transit leadership produced mixed results in terms of rapid transit. Whether Ford can do better is still to be determined.

Ford might be holding firm because he believes giving in would give the Province an easy excuse to reduce funding, but that's probably giving him way too much credit.
 
Miller pushed for a Sheppard subway extension his first term and lost to Spadina, and most of his Transit City plan from his second term is either dead or in limbo, so his transit leadership produced mixed results in terms of rapid transit. Whether Ford can do better is still to be determined.

Ford might be holding firm because he believes giving in would give the Province an easy excuse to reduce funding, but that's probably giving him way too much credit.

My point is simply that Miller did a far better job at leading city hall and holding council together on a single agenda (regardless of whether or not you agree with that agenda). Whatever happened to his agenda after he left office, or what Queen's Park decided to do with the subway is not really a reflection of his effectiveness as a leader.

As I said, Ford can hold firm if he wants, but he has to take control of the issue. Hiding from the media and letting his appointed allies undermine his message is making him look like a farce on the transit file. If Ford was half the leader that Miller was, he would have been out in front of the media the minute this became an issue, flanked by supporters praising the merits of subways. He would have had BIA's and residents associations calling into the press offering support and criticizing surface transit. Of course, if he was a leader, Stintz and Chong would not be crossing him in the first place. He would be taking their concerns into consideration behind closed doors, modifying his plan if need be, and then presenting a new plan as one coherent unit. Instead this is all playing out in the public and the mayor is nowhere to be seen. The few sound bites he's offered makes it seem like he's been living on a different planet.

It's obviously not news to anyone that Ford is a terrible leader, but this issue makes his failings particularly clear. Ford may be a hard worker. He may be ideologically consistent. He may be an easy person to read and someone who makes his views on issues very clear. However, he is not a leader. Not on transit, and not on any of the other issues he's tried to make the centerpiece of his administration.
 
For the record, I am much less concerned about whether Eglinton proceeds partially or entirely underground as about making sure that the line IS built in some form. Either version of the project would be a huge leap forward.

That said: Ford is skating very close to the edge here. On the Waterfront file, he and his allies had the good sense to get on board with a 'compromise' in private once it became clear they would lose in Council. On transit, he has left himself absolutely no escape route, barring a dramatic last-minute conversion.

A Council defeat--and quite possibly a big one, in terms of votes--on arguably the signature issue of his mayoralty would be a blow from which I am not sure Ford could recover. If that wouldn't be the moral equivalent of a vote of no confidence, I'm not sure what would be.

The irony here is that the Council approval question is a mess of the mayor's own making. Had he submitted his revised plan to council last Spring, when he had an effective majority, it would probably have sailed through. Now, between the Waterfront and budget defeats, it's clear the emperor has no clothes.

While right now we're seeing an absurd degree of freelancing by councillors, I expect the middle and left--aided this time by the likes of Stintz and Parker--will be working very soon to get on the same page, and to propose a revised plan all support. When that happens Ford will have a very strong incentive to find a way to get to yes, lest he totally lose control of the municipal government. If he does, we'll be in completely uncharted territory.
 
From Rob Ford's Facebook page at this link:

My Weekly Report - week ending January 27, 2012
by Rob Ford on Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 6:30am

Dear Friends,

From 1910 to 2007, the City of Toronto has based its transit planning around subway lines (built or anticipated). It is now time that we get back to this sort of transit planning to make certain residents will continue to have rapid transit as a mode of commuting.

For the past 50 of those 100 years of planning transit around subways, the Yonge-University and Bloor-Danforth lines have continually served as arteries that take in thousands of people each day from near-by surface routes and get them to their destinations quickly.

We are now at a juncture where we must expand on our established transit infrastructure to ensure people can continue getting to where they want to go in a fast and efficient way.

As you know, I have continually pushed for an underground LRT that will span from Jane/Black Creek to Kennedy Station. I have done this because residents have repeatedly stressed that they do not want streetcars that are marginally faster than busses and take up lanes of traffic. Lastly, it is important that Scarborough, the fastest growing region in Toronto, is finally provided with a rapid transit line that can help move its 625,000 residents faster.

In the coming days you are likely to hear some comments from City Hall that will suggest we should go back to Transit City. Proponents will argue that Transit City is an effective way to get around Toronto. I argue, however, that the best way to move people across Toronto is with rapid transit - which you simply cannot have with the surface rail lines.

Metrolinx estimates that the average trip for a rider will be reduced by half on the underground Eglinton Crosstown. Scarborough transit riders on an underground line could travel from Laird Avenue to Kennedy Station in about 14 minutes. This is a vast improvement from the estimated travel time of 24 minutes on a surface rail line.

It is also important to remember that an underground rapid transit line has considerable savings for taxpayers. Underground lines and the vehicles that travel on them require less maintenance since they are spared the wear and tear of Canadian summers and winters. This will result in infrastructure that lasts longer and keeps the capital replacement costs down.

While Executive Committee waits for a report from Toronto Community Housing on how $222 million in revenue from TCHC property sales can be appropriately applied to fixing the City's housing stock , I will be visiting TCHC buildings with staff to show Toronto why we must move ahead with the sale of some community housing properties. Yesterday, I visited 101 Humber with City and TCHC staff to make sure they are aware of where this money needs to go. I will be conducting more visits to these units over the next few weeks to reinforce why City Council must move ahead with this initiative. Please visit http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/26/asdf to get a more detailed account of my visit.

Today (Saturday January 28th) at 1:00 PM at Eglinton Square (located at Eglinton and Victoria Park) I invite you to join Councillor Ford and me for our second Community Walk for my "Cut the Waist Challenge". Please feel free to join us and share your thoughts on why you think we need more rapid transit in Scarborough.

Have a wonderful weekend!

Yours truly,

Mayor Rob Ford
 
I am surprised that no one is talking about the report commissioned by Joe Mihevic that confirms that Ford has no legal right to scrap Transit City unilaterally. Under the City of Toronto Act, the Mayor must have the support of council to undo motions voted on by council. A lot of us questioned how he was able to do that last year, and now, it would seem to me to be pretty clear-cut that he did not have a legal right to do so. Ford and his brother (on 1010 this morning) are going on about his "mandate" as if he has the right to bully through any of the platform issues that he ran on because he was elected.

His supporters seem to be dodging this issue and focusing on the question of who paid for this lawyer to write this report. Mihevic has not divulged this, but has insisted that he "took care of it" and that no tax dollars or any money from any interested parties was used. They are deriding the lawyer as "left wing" when some of her previous clients include Hazel MacCallion and Kim Campbell. Absurd.

Arlene Bynon (prob spelled her name wrong but couldn't care less) had Mihevic on her show last night, and peppered and pushed him with questions about the report's funding while ignoring the fact that Ford cancelled transit city without a legal right to do so. She then had on four callers, and not at all surprisingly all but one were Ford boosters. She of course did allow the one token dissenting voice on just for fodder that her and the other callers could mock. Listening to that lady is going to give me grey hairs before my time.

Here are some articles on the issue:

Toronto Star

Toronto Sun

Globe and Mail
 
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