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Racism in Toronto Workforce

I haven't dealt with police too much, so I've assumed that they are good people doing their jobs.

I changed my opinion a bit when I witnessed an officer being very rude towards a cab driver who had done nothing wrong. Maybe I am naive, but I just expected that a police officer has an obligation to be courteous in dealing with the public. (if a bank teller or cashier had acted like this guy they would be fired).

Maybe it was just this one person, but he had a partner with him - so he must have felt comfortable enough with that behavior to do it in front of another officer.

Police do an essential job, but they wield a lot of power, and are largely unsupervised on patrol, I can understand why a young black guy would avoid them like the plague.
 
Police do an essential job, but they wield a lot of power, and are largely unsupervised on patrol, I can understand why a young black guy would avoid them like the plague.

I agree they do essential job, but they can be racists, they know they can get away with it. The other week i got stuck behind some cop cars since they parked their police cruisers in the middle lane so no one could pass all they had to do was move over to the other lane and let us by. i saw 6 white cops searching an asian guys car while he was in handcuffs. I was thinking do we really need 5 cops standing around watching while one cop searches this guys car? So after a few minutes they found nothing and let him go all they did was create a traffic jam.
 
Handcuffs could indicate someone who is known to police, or an individual who resisted the original requests of the police. Concerning six individuals at the scene, numbers tend to control a situation better.
 
Handcuffs do not mean that the person is being arrested/charged, they are used for the protection of the officers themselves, the public and the individual(s) in handcuffs.

I like how you said "they can" be racists this time around gabe. Don't get me wrong, there are bad apples in the police force. And yes, many police officers do abuse their powers. There is racism, corruption, you name it in every profession.
 
I changed my opinion a bit when I witnessed an officer being very rude towards a cab driver who had done nothing wrong.
My experience with cabs and the police are that the latter in fact give way too much free reign to cabs. I've seen cabs run red lights, park illegally, make illegal turns, speed, etc, etc...all in front of police cars and nothing happens.
 
^^^
May well be true, and police are there to enforce laws, but they have an obligation to be polite and professional while doing their job (same as anyone else).

I'm not anti-police at all - I just feel their job is important and they need to be held to a very high standard.
 
^^^
May well be true, and police are there to enforce laws, but they have an obligation to be polite and professional while doing their job (same as anyone else).
I've never had a bad experience with the police. In Cabbagetown, where I live, whenever I see the police on horseback, bicycle or walking through the neighbourhood I always make a point of saying hello and making them feel welcome and valued. A few weeks ago two police officers were using my driveway as a blind to catch drivers who rolled through the four-way stop signs in the area (this is a notorious problem in the neighbourhood, especially taxis and anyone racing for the green lights), and my wife pretty much hugged them and brought them tea. My kids also have great respect for the police, mind you they're still young, not surly teenagers yet :)

I've never understood those who say that increased police presence or involvement in their neighbourhoods is somehow racist or part of racial profiling. I welcome the police in my area. Heck, if they wanted to pull over every car entering and exiting Cabbagetown for quick inspection and hello I'd welcome that too. It would keep out the troublemakers.
 
Well i know for a fact the cops would treat a middle aged white man living in Cabbagetown a lot different than someone person with dark skin living in jane & finch area or some place like that.
 
Malthus, my opinions aren't necessarily contrary to yours but you were stating:

"No-one denies racism exists, but I think its real importance as to who does well and who doesn't is far overstated."

Where as I was suggesting that in my opinion it is perhaps understated not overstated. "It" not necessarily meaning racism but the importance of selective culturally or ethnically influenced bias. Infact, society need not be racist in the negative sense at all to still create the outcome of racial segregation or bias. No negative decision making or intolerance need occur in peoples behaviour in order to create conditions of disadvantage for a group. It is sufficient to create positive advantage for people who are like yourself and even be tolerant of all peoples and yet still through your decision-making contribute to the marginalization of those people who are different. Is it wrong to selectively create positive advantage for people like yourself? That is a completely different question, but we all do it in some form ethnically, culturally, regionally or even genetically (such as your biological family). My main point is simply an opinion that these forms of bias have a profound influence on our behaviour and the shape of our society and that this extends into the work place and creates genuine disadvantage, unfairly or justifiably so, for visible minorities.

If I may return to an earlier point - I apologize for a late reply, I'm not a frequent visitor.

This is a very good point, and as I believe you mentioned earlier it is a double-edged one.

I agree with everything but the last half of the last sentence: "...that this extends into the work place and creates genuine disadvantage, unfairly or justifiably so, for visible minorities". It may do so, but it is not guaranteed to do so.

To my mind, there is no question that groups chose others "like themselves" through networking and other informal bias and selection mechanisms.

But that creates two more issues:

1. What is "like myself"? Is it someone with the same skin colour or someone of the same social class? I think the latter is more commonly chosen these days - someone who wears the same sort of clothes, listens to the same sort of music, eats at the same kinds of restaurants is more "us" than someone who does none of these things, but has the same colour skin.

2. Another and narrower cleavage is that of a common background or culture. Some groups are tighter and more coehesive than others in this respect; but again this need not line up with 'race'.

The point I'm making is that I agree with your analysis but it does not necessarily lead to your conclusions - that a person is disadvantaged because of the colour of their skin. Class is often a bigger drawback in terms of unconcious bias.

Another example I know well is that of Iranian-Canadians, who tend to be very well educated - the majority of whom I know are well educated upper middle class types (who were able to bribe their way out of Iran right after the revolution); they have had no particular trouble fitting in the upper middle class here, as they share the same tastes and inclinations - in spite of the fears of anti-Muslim and anti-brown skin prejudice, they by and large are able to convince Canadians of the same social class that they are "like us".

[Somewhat ironically, Iranians in Canada often I have found tend to get along particularly well with Jews, in my experience - they share similar predelictions, such as a preference for the medical profession]
 
[Somewhat ironically, Iranians in Canada often I have found tend to get along particularly well with Jews, in my experience - they share similar predelictions, such as a preference for the medical profession]
Notwithstanding the recent history of Iran, the Jewish and Iranian peoples both face the same threat of attack from the Arab states. In many cases, those that face the same enemy become friends. For example, The Shah of Iran was the first Muslim leader to recognize the State of Israel, and both Israel and the Shah of Iran depend(ed) on a large degree of US political, military and financial support for their existence.

As a side note, Iranian women are amongst the world's most beautiful.
 
Notwithstanding the recent history of Iran, the Jewish and Iranian peoples both face the same threat of attack from the Arab states. In many cases, those that face the same enemy become friends. For example, The Shah of Iran was the first Muslim leader to recognize the State of Israel, and both Israel and the Shah of Iran depend(ed) on a large degree of US political, military and financial support for their existence.

As a side note, Iranian women are amongst the world's most beautiful.

They are indeed - but also, as a generality, famously high-maintenance.

[My best friend is married to an Iranian woman. Both stereotypes apply in full. ;)]
 
All of you cry foul. Settle down. We are very fortunate to live in Canada in comparison to other countries.

Yes racism exists here. It unfortunately exists almost everywhere in the world, in some form.

I spent a lot of years living in the US midwest. If you want to see some racism. Go there. Want to see it even worse, head south to Missouri. It can at times be even worse than movies depict.

Instead of complaining about a racism situation that is better than most of the worlds racism problems, let's focus on the positive and commend those whose put Canada on the top of the list.
 
Malthus, I agree that other factors such as social class or perhaps even to a larger degree education level ultimately have huge and perhaps dominant influence in how we group ourselves. However physical and cultural traits persist as indicators for social class and education level here and for the most part everywhere on earth. You can see this at work at all levels of society from working class lunch rooms, to white collar office floors, to groupings of friends, to the halls of academia. I'm no pessimist on this subject but I think that if it is the goal of society to break down barriers and strive for the mutual success of all people we need to understand where we are and what are the mechanisms separating us. To date I believe these discussions are weak and focused on racism which, beyond a point becomes counter-productive because racism is just one element of a much larger and more important set of behaviours we all share. I also believe that while it is up to society to be as inclusive as possible this is not enough, the main drive must come from marginalized groups themselves. It is not enough for someone to include you, you must prove your own inclusion is justified.
 

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