Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

All these distinctions are meaningless. What Metrolinx needs to do to promote the idea of transforming the current GO corridors into rapid transit is an entirely new brand. When we say GO, there are a lot of people who just can't conceive of the idea of real rapid transit in these corridors. All they can imagine is running the bilevels a little more often. It needs a rebranding like Viva is to YRT buses. The concept would include 15 minute minimum frequencies at all times, electrified high-platform trains, relatively frequent stops, and seamless connection with other transit routes including buses and subways. It would extend out at least to the edge of the inner 905 and would provide a rapid transit backbone for the entire GTA. If someone wanted to go from Downtown Markham to Consumers Road, they would walk to the regional rail station, ride to Sheppard, then transfer to the TTC bus (or LRT) as seamlessly as you would from the subway today. The same would be the case for someone from the Lisgar area to Port Credit: they would ride their local bus to the regional rail station, transfer seamlessly to the regional train, then get off at Cooksville and transfer to the Hurontario bus (or LRT) down to Port Credit. The opportunities are endless and the cost is very reasonable. So much of the infrastructure is already in place.

The faster acceleration of electric trains will prevent the additional stops from adding much to travel time. For longer trips (Kitchener, Barrie, Hamilton), a higher level of service would exist with slightly more comfortable seating that would make fewer stops through the urban area. It would serve both longer trips and as a higher level express service within the city. All of these systems, of course, would be on the same zone fare system as local transit.
 
All these distinctions are meaningless. What Metrolinx needs to do to promote the idea of transforming the current GO corridors into rapid transit is an entirely new brand. When we say GO, there are a lot of people who just can't conceive of the idea of real rapid transit in these corridors. All they can imagine is running the bilevels a little more often.

It seems to me Metrolinx can't conceive of any other idea either. For example, their refusal to consider a station in Parkdale or Liberty Village, in spite of this massive investment in the rail corridor there.
 
German transit operators, and most notably the German Federal Railway company, DB, follow this motto which North American transit operators - and Metrolinx, in particular - should take heed of:

Organization before Electronics before Concrete

We have it ass-backwards here: if there is a transit problem, we build something expensive before we consider how we could change the way we manage or operate a line, or the organization, or the whole concept of transit.
 
We have it ass-backwards here: if there is a transit problem, we build something expensive before we consider how we could change the way we manage or operate a line, or the organization, or the whole concept of transit.

Well said. It's a complicated issue, but how can we expect to achieve anything without dealing with it directly?
 
You're absolutely right, Hipster Duck. Integrated fares, scheduling, and service planning would cost a tiny fraction of these 11-figure transit expansions and yet would bring about immense benefits to the entire region.

For regional rail, I'd honestly be willing to just call it a subway or, better yet, light rail. If people on this forum can't even wrap their heads around regional rail, how can we expect the general public to be able to? Just say we're building five brand new light rail lines all the way from downtown Toronto to the 905 suburbs. Then just build as if you were builidng an S-Bahn or RER, with a dedicated pair of electrified tracks and regional rail rolling stock running on set frequencies. I'd say it should also definitely be a completely different agency from GO. They're great at what they do--running a commuter rail service. Grand River Transit may also be great at providing a local bus service, but it's entirely institutionally incapable of running Toronto's transit system. GO is far too stuck in the mentality of adding additional trains "as demand warrants." That's just not how you run a regional rail service. The Yonge Line trains aren't full in the middle of the day either, but imagine if the TTC decided to run them every 30 minutes to be more "efficient."
 
The Yonge Line trains aren't full in the middle of the day either, but imagine if the TTC decided to run them every 30 minutes to be more "efficient."

When was the last time you were on one of those trains? Full seated load with some standees is common during the middle of the day and evenings.
 
If TTC doesn't fix the delay of opening of the doors on the new TR compare to rest of the fleet, TTC will be running fewer trains on the line.

The delay has drop from 6 seconds to 3 seconds and still 3 seconds too long.

Moving to the S-Bahn is the way to go, but you got 2 parties marching to their own drum. That TTC and Metrolinx.

I can tell you from my experience on the Yonge Line that you will find very few seats with standing room only at various times. This is even at night. Some section see more riders than other section.

You will find seats on the new extension as there are only a few time slots outside of peak time you cannot find a seat on the current section.

I am looking forward to have a taste of the S-Bahan when I am over there this summer. Hitting 5 Germany cities as well 10 counties.
 
I am looking forward to have a taste of the S-Bahan when I am over there this summer. Hitting 5 Germany cities as well 10 counties.

I was over in Germany last May, and I stayed at a relative's place in one of the middle ring suburbs of Berlin, so the S-Bahn was the only rapid transit that went out that far (U-Bahn only goes into the inner ring suburbs). I guess a fair comparison would be Thornhill or something like that.

Having used the GO train from Burlington pretty frequently, I was blown away by how much better the S-Bahn is. The vehicle comfort level is about the same, as are the bare-bones nature of many of the stations. It was the frequency and the connectivity that really got me. No schedule needed, just show up and a train will be along in at most 10 minutes. Takes you right to the central station (Hauptbahnhof), where you can transfer to nearly every other S-Bahn line, as well as a couple U-Bahn lines (as well as inter-city rail). The overall experience was more like taking the subway here than taking the GO train, even though it was the same function that GO serves here.

The thing is, having this type of system, in terms of dollars per km, wouldn't really be that expensive, especially when compared with other rail projects. And it can be phased pretty well. Electrify everything inside of the City of Toronto, or just beyond (Long Branch, Cooksville, Bramlea, Downsview Park, Oriole, Agincourt, Pickering) in the first phases, so that you're running high frequency trains inside of Toronto. The rest of the lines would still have the current GO service, with enhanced GO REX service being gradually pushed further and further out.
 

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