W. K. Lis
Superstar
Boston is a city of narrow streets. Now with the Big Dig out of the way, they are now turning their attention to bicycles.
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)
- Thread starter rp07
- Start date
Boston is a city of narrow streets. Now with the Big Dig out of the way, they are now turning their attention to bicycles.
jmacmillan
Active Member
One can only hope that eventually there is an understanding that such lanes can actually contribute to congestion, not alleviate it.
Allegedly, the first bike lanes in Toronto, on Poplar Plains Road, were put in to control speeding, not to facilitate cycling. Not much has changed. Cyclists are discriminated against. There are lots of examples. Every arterial road should have cycling lanes, but it seems planners would prefer to replace the underused switch lane on Jarvis Street with a grassed median. Explain the appalling lack of cycling posts at Dundas Square, right above a parking garage. Lots of thought to accomodate cars. Cyclists very little.
Allegedly, the first bike lanes in Toronto, on Poplar Plains Road, were put in to control speeding, not to facilitate cycling. Not much has changed. Cyclists are discriminated against. There are lots of examples. Every arterial road should have cycling lanes, but it seems planners would prefer to replace the underused switch lane on Jarvis Street with a grassed median. Explain the appalling lack of cycling posts at Dundas Square, right above a parking garage. Lots of thought to accomodate cars. Cyclists very little.
JRToronto
New Member
First off, I am an avid cyclist.
Reading all the comments about the stupid places they put these lanes is so true...
I live in Richmond Hill, which surprisingly, actually fairly bike friendly. We have bike lanes, and quiet side roads to use. But, the bike lanes we do have are on those quiet residential roads. God forbid they put them on Yonge, or Major Mackenzie...
Haha, and that article suggesting we cyclists and drivers unite against pedestrians, also a very good idea. They are always in the way...
There is a good article in the Toronto Life about cycling in the June issue...
Reading all the comments about the stupid places they put these lanes is so true...
I live in Richmond Hill, which surprisingly, actually fairly bike friendly. We have bike lanes, and quiet side roads to use. But, the bike lanes we do have are on those quiet residential roads. God forbid they put them on Yonge, or Major Mackenzie...
Haha, and that article suggesting we cyclists and drivers unite against pedestrians, also a very good idea. They are always in the way...
There is a good article in the Toronto Life about cycling in the June issue...
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Putting bike lanes along residential streets that parallel the main arterial roads is fine. That is if they are parallel. You can't do that with the cul-de-sacs in the suburbs, unless short-cuts were put in the between streets and one does not get lost.
Streets like Birmingham Street in south Etobicoke has bike lanes and does parallel LakeShore Blvd., but is straight because it is in a older neighbourhood, not a cul-de-sac in the newer areas.
doady
Senior Member
It is fine... but it is also a little pointless. Residential streets probably do not have much traffic anyways.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Rereading these posts makes me think that this city has a long way to go before ever really being "bike friendly." On one trip last week - using bike lanes - I encountered three vehicles parked in those lanes. Trying to turn with busy traffic always feels like one is putting his life at risk - particularly when drivers get pissed off about a bike being in front of them.
Bikes should not be on sidewalks, but cyclists all too feel disrespected on the road (and I mean the respectful cyclists).
Bikes should not be on sidewalks, but cyclists all too feel disrespected on the road (and I mean the respectful cyclists).
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
The best comparison for Toronto's bike infrastructure is the TTC. The TTC is not the worst transit system by any means, but it is a bad system for a city with such a high transit ridership, especially since many of the riders belong to an influential socio-economic class. In the same way, Toronto's bike infrastructure is hardly the worst I've ever seen, but it's probably the worst I can think of for a city where so many people rely on bicycles to get around.
How could it be that Phoenix, one of the most auto-centric cities in the world, has 6 times as many bike lanes as Toronto? I've heard the width of suburban arterials argument trotted out in defense of Toronto's apathy, but much of Toronto is suburban, too, and how hard would it be to paint a line down the side of McNicoll or Martin Grove?
Downtown, the problem seems to be holding on to on-street parking spaces for dear life. If we removed one parking side on Queen, we would have enough room to build a contra-flow bike lane and widen the sidewalk a couple of centimetres. The casualty would be a few hundred parking spaces which could easily be made up for by building Green P garages, rather than gravel parking lots or from just relying on additional pedestrians and bicyclists to take up the slack in business lost from those who choose to drive and park on the street.
How could it be that Phoenix, one of the most auto-centric cities in the world, has 6 times as many bike lanes as Toronto? I've heard the width of suburban arterials argument trotted out in defense of Toronto's apathy, but much of Toronto is suburban, too, and how hard would it be to paint a line down the side of McNicoll or Martin Grove?
Downtown, the problem seems to be holding on to on-street parking spaces for dear life. If we removed one parking side on Queen, we would have enough room to build a contra-flow bike lane and widen the sidewalk a couple of centimetres. The casualty would be a few hundred parking spaces which could easily be made up for by building Green P garages, rather than gravel parking lots or from just relying on additional pedestrians and bicyclists to take up the slack in business lost from those who choose to drive and park on the street.
Dichotomy
Banned
Well, you've answered your own question: a properly designed, 6 lane arterial road could possibly accomodate a bicycle lane, ESPECIALLY IN A CITY THAT HAS BEAUTIFUL WEATHER 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR.
Look no further than Birchmount, which recently went from 4 lanes to 2 south of St. Clair so that a bicycle lane could be added.
I happened along there Sunday around 2:00 - sunny, beautiful day: one bicycle, dozens of cars in a line. Such is progress in this city.
Pity all the workers in those factories and warehouses in the area that now have to struggle with ONE lane in each direction. How a city of 3 million considers a 2 lane arterial road acceptable in this day and age is beyond me. Owen Sound has more capacity on its streets!
I understand the plight of cyclists, but it is outrageous that wholly inadquate lane capacity is taken away so that a few bicycles can trundle down those roads in peace. Even on Sherbourne St. where I live, autos vastly outnumber the bicycles on a gorgeous day, let alone the winter. Yet still they keep building 40 story condos and soon Wellesley will be constricted to a single lane.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Aside from the debates about bike lanes etc. Here's a question: Do you notice if there are more bikes on the road? Anecdotally I'm under the impression that bike ridership is increasing at a reasonable clip. Infact, I live in the western inner city and I'm not sure I have seen any community in North America where bikes are more prevalent. So our government may be failing us or not with respect to their bike strategy but if Toronto is not bike friendly than what city is? You can paint all the lines on the road, and pass all the ordinances you want, and say all the right things but ultimately the only indicator that really matters is how many two-wheelers there are on the road.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Ricky, that's like saying that Mumbai is the most transit friendly city in the world because it transports more people on its handful of electric rail lines than any other in the world. When you say bike "friendliness", you should imply a level of desirability or quality of life to the service being offered, and Toronto's high bike ridership is due more to a lack of affordable, efficient transportation alternatives. Even if your philosophy was correct, Vancouver has the highest bike ridership in North America, where 3% of work commutes are done on bicycles, versus 1.7% in Toronto.
Well, I was advocating for more bike lanes on Toronto's suburban arterials where there is practically nothing. This is a fair comparison to bike lanes in a suburban environment Phoenix. It's not just bike lanes; it's also bike racks on every city bus and traffic signal buttons that extend out to the bicycle lanes that make the infrastructure for biking more conducive. If a right wing American city where 97% of all trips are done in private automobiles (and where there is an entrenched mentality of preserving private property rights over maintaining public assets) serves its bike riding citizens better than a supposedly progressive Canadian city like Toronto, you know we have a problem.
Second, I wouldn't say that Phoenix's weather is beautiful for cycling. It's 40 degrees here right now, and there are some things I did as a cyclist in Toronto - like not bring a water bottle - that would be suicidal down here.
yin_yang
Active Member
Well, you've answered your own question: a properly designed, 6 lane arterial road could possibly accomodate a bicycle lane, ESPECIALLY IN A CITY THAT HAS BEAUTIFUL WEATHER 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR.
Look no further than Birchmount, which recently went from 4 lanes to 2 south of St. Clair so that a bicycle lane could be added.
I happened along there Sunday around 2:00 - sunny, beautiful day: one bicycle, dozens of cars in a line. Such is progress in this city.
Pity all the workers in those factories and warehouses in the area that now have to struggle with ONE lane in each direction. How a city of 3 million considers a 2 lane arterial road acceptable in this day and age is beyond me. Owen Sound has more capacity on its streets!
I understand the plight of cyclists, but it is outrageous that wholly inadquate lane capacity is taken away so that a few bicycles can trundle down those roads in peace. Even on Sherbourne St. where I live, autos vastly outnumber the bicycles on a gorgeous day, let alone the winter. Yet still they keep building 40 story condos and soon Wellesley will be constricted to a single lane.
the results won't be visible to the naked eye until the bike system is comparable to the automobile road system. would i use the bicycle lane on birchmount? hell yeah, if i could get to it by way of other bike lanes.
Dichotomy
Banned
Well, I use Birchmount and Kingston Rd. quite often, even in the winter, and I rarely see bicycles on the roads in that area.
I understand the concept of 'build it and they will come,' but (and this is harping again) where does this city get off that 4 lanes is acceptable in an urban area of 5 million? That is the point. We are taking roads that are already one lane in each direction for most of the day (due to on street parking), then painting a white line which makes that road permanently one lane in each direction. Major arteries should be 3 lanes in each direction. Every city I know of has that - EXCEPT TORONTO.
So maybe you'll get a few bikes on streets like Birchmount in the summer, but what about the other 9 months of the year?
Council is caving to a very vocal 3% minority. It's easy to paint a white line here and there to shut them up; not so easy to procure the funds to widen those same streets to allow for 4 clear lanes of traffic PLUS bicycle lanes. Even the Dufferin 'straightening' has to be couched in careful terms so as to not look like it might somehow, indirectly benefit motorists. Good grief!
I guess it's time for the CAA and the Board of Trade to start DOING something for a change, instead of keeping silent. Or one day we're going to wake up to a cow path along Bloor St.
I understand the concept of 'build it and they will come,' but (and this is harping again) where does this city get off that 4 lanes is acceptable in an urban area of 5 million? That is the point. We are taking roads that are already one lane in each direction for most of the day (due to on street parking), then painting a white line which makes that road permanently one lane in each direction. Major arteries should be 3 lanes in each direction. Every city I know of has that - EXCEPT TORONTO.
So maybe you'll get a few bikes on streets like Birchmount in the summer, but what about the other 9 months of the year?
Council is caving to a very vocal 3% minority. It's easy to paint a white line here and there to shut them up; not so easy to procure the funds to widen those same streets to allow for 4 clear lanes of traffic PLUS bicycle lanes. Even the Dufferin 'straightening' has to be couched in careful terms so as to not look like it might somehow, indirectly benefit motorists. Good grief!
I guess it's time for the CAA and the Board of Trade to start DOING something for a change, instead of keeping silent. Or one day we're going to wake up to a cow path along Bloor St.
Dichotomy
Banned
Well, you start paying $1,000 a year in gasoline taxes, $140 for a license sticker and $3k in taxes to buy a bicycle and then maybe we can talk about equal sharing of the roads.
Oh, and $2 a half hour to tie your bike up at the side of the road.
confusion
Active Member
First off, I'm speechless that you actually think like this. You are the very problem with the North American "car" society.
Second, do you not understand that cyclists, as citizens, help pay for the massive road infrastructure in Canada too? Infrastructure that they barely use (as a percentage of the roads). Last I checked I was paying income tax and property tax both of which significantly contribute to the roads that both cyclists and cars use. Your "gasoline taxes" are just a tiny percentage of where the road funding comes from. Oh, and since the added weight of cars over time destroys the road much quicker than a road filled with cyclists, I would say your gas tax goes towards that.
Third, 3k in taxes to buy a bicycle. You're just paying tax on the vehicle you chose to use. Buy a bike or an old car and you won't be paying that much in tax.
TKTKTK
Senior Member
*shrug* Busses and Streetcars do far, far more damage than either.