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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

I really like the idea of a Downsview-York U-Jane-Rutherford (or Major Mack) Viva route. It would hit a lot of trip generators within York Region, like Vaughan Mills and a GO Station on the Barrie Line. Major Mack is preferable in my opinion as it would also serve Maple, York Central Hospital and both Barrie and Richmond Hill GO corridors.
 
ShonTron said:
I really like the idea of a Downsview-York U-Jane-Rutherford (or Major Mack) Viva route. It would hit a lot of trip generators within York Region, like Vaughan Mills and a GO Station on the Barrie Line. Major Mack is preferable in my opinion as it would also serve Maple, York Central Hospital and both Barrie and Richmond Hill GO corridors.
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Also, I believe the new Vaughan hospital is slated to be constructed on the north-west corner of Jane/Major Mack. As well a Major Mack alignment passes by Vaughan city hall.
 
Another thing to keep in mind regarding ridership growth is annual fare increase, which now means we are paying the highest fares in the country for our 30-60+ minute rush hour frequencies.

As for Viva being a failure, I would call it more of a failure in planning than ridership. Even at their highest frequencies, the articulated buses can be running at crush load. Then we have my experience to York this morning, where I was waiting 10 minutes for a Purple 40 foot bus at rush hour at RHC, and when it came about 2 dozen people were left waiting another 10 minutes, and there were about 10 people waiting on average at each stop, and maybe 3 at each got on.

I'd say the real failure is the drawing of the lines themselves - okay, just the Purple. The detour to the Promenade for most ends up being a waste, as the vast majority of riders are heading to York and there is nowhere near as much passenger shuffle as there is at RHC. Meanwhile the line detours again to service the future downtown Markham, while through passengers must endure another detour.

This is where grid network planning comes into play. I can't speak for Markham, but in Vaughan's case for the number of people that get on and off in Thornhill, it would be much better if the route stayed on Highway 7 and had passengers transfer on to a frequent Bathurst bus to get to the district.

It could even pull a Bloor subway and get people heading to York to transfer on to a Keele bus while it continues through along 7.
 
Electrify said:
Another thing to keep in mind regarding ridership growth is annual fare increase, which now means we are paying the highest fares in the country for our 30-60+ minute rush hour frequencies.

As for Viva being a failure, I would call it more of a failure in planning than ridership. Even at their highest frequencies, the articulated buses can be running at crush load. Then we have my experience to York this morning, where I was waiting 10 minutes for a Purple 40 foot bus at rush hour at RHC, and when it came about 2 dozen people were left waiting another 10 minutes, and there were about 10 people waiting on average at each stop, and maybe 3 at each got on.

I'd say the real failure is the drawing of the lines themselves - okay, just the Purple. The detour to the Promenade for most ends up being a waste, as the vast majority of riders are heading to York and there is nowhere near as much passenger shuffle as there is at RHC. Meanwhile the line detours again to service the future downtown Markham, while through passengers must endure another detour.

This is where grid network planning comes into play. I can't speak for Markham, but in Vaughan's case for the number of people that get on and off in Thornhill, it would be much better if the route stayed on Highway 7 and had passengers transfer on to a frequent Bathurst bus to get to the district.

It could even pull a Bloor subway and get people heading to York to transfer on to a Keele bus while it continues through along 7.
Click to expand...

VIVA needs to go to Promenade and that section because that's where people actualyl live, as well as it allows the line to connect with various others. Going straight on highway 7 till Keele would by-pass basically the whole part of south-central YRT's connecting routes.
 
I understand the double-fare is annoying, but Peel and Durham regions have to endure the same thing but you don't see anywhere near the same amount of complaining about it. I wonder why that is.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I understand the double-fare is annoying, but Peel and Durham regions have to endure the same thing but you don't see anywhere near the same amount of complaining about it. I wonder why that is.
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In Peel and Durham there are actual physical features in the landscape that visually and socially separate Toronto from those regions (humber/ Rouge rivers, Highway 427). In York Region it is basically an invisible line (steeles) which retains the same feel south and north of it. I would argue that York Region shares a much greater integration with Toronto than any of the other two regions. So essentially people feel much more inclined to walk a few blocks or KM south to catch what is perceived as a "local" TTC bus rather than feel like there is an apparent difference between them and Toronto. Most People in southern York Region feel very much integrated with Toronto, and hence the TTC.
 
Electrify said:
Another thing to keep in mind regarding ridership growth is annual fare increase, which now means we are paying the highest fares in the country for our 30-60+ minute rush hour frequencies.

As for Viva being a failure, I would call it more of a failure in planning than ridership. Even at their highest frequencies, the articulated buses can be running at crush load. Then we have my experience to York this morning, where I was waiting 10 minutes for a Purple 40 foot bus at rush hour at RHC, and when it came about 2 dozen people were left waiting another 10 minutes, and there were about 10 people waiting on average at each stop, and maybe 3 at each got on.

I'd say the real failure is the drawing of the lines themselves - okay, just the Purple. The detour to the Promenade for most ends up being a waste, as the vast majority of riders are heading to York and there is nowhere near as much passenger shuffle as there is at RHC. Meanwhile the line detours again to service the future downtown Markham, while through passengers must endure another detour.

This is where grid network planning comes into play. I can't speak for Markham, but in Vaughan's case for the number of people that get on and off in Thornhill, it would be much better if the route stayed on Highway 7 and had passengers transfer on to a frequent Bathurst bus to get to the district.

It could even pull a Bloor subway and get people heading to York to transfer on to a Keele bus while it continues through along 7.
Click to expand...

Maybe they should flip the Rte 77 and Purple routing. With 77 providing the local service and a few detours and Purple providing the direct grid based higher order transit.
 
ShonTron said:
I really like the idea of a Downsview-York U-Jane-Rutherford (or Major Mack) Viva route. It would hit a lot of trip generators within York Region, like Vaughan Mills and a GO Station on the Barrie Line. Major Mack is preferable in my opinion as it would also serve Maple, York Central Hospital and both Barrie and Richmond Hill GO corridors.
Click to expand...

What's such a big deal about serving "Maple" specifically? It's just a part of a general suburban area.
 
BMO said:
In Peel and Durham there are actual physical features in the landscape that visually and socially separate Toronto from those regions (humber/ Rouge rivers, Highway 427). In York Region it is basically an invisible line (steeles) which retains the same feel south and north of it. I would argue that York Region shares a much greater integration with Toronto than any of the other two regions. So essentially people feel much more inclined to walk a few blocks or KM south to catch what is perceived as a "local" TTC bus rather than feel like there is an apparent difference between them and Toronto. Most People in southern York Region feel very much integrated with Toronto, and hence the TTC.
Click to expand...

The Humber doesn't separate Toronto from Peel Region.

Etobicoke Creek (and it literally is a creek) forms part of the Mississauga-Toronto border, then the border is Eglinton (is Eglinton a physical barrier?), and further up the 427 is indeed the border. How any of those are more of a barrier than Steeles I do not comprehend.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
The Humber doesn't separate Toronto from Peel Region.

Etobicoke Creek (and it literally is a creek) forms part of the Mississauga-Toronto border, then the border is Eglinton (is Eglinton a physical barrier?), and further up the 427 is indeed the border. How any of those are more of a barrier than Steeles I do not comprehend.
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There are houses on both sides of Steeles for much of its length as the Toronto-York border. One side of Steeles looks no different than the other side, therefore there is a sense of contiguity. Etobicoke Creek, being a watercourse, is psychologically a much more effective barrier between two municipalities than a road that has houses on both sides. The rest of the Toronto-Mississauga border that is not the creek is either industrial areas or multi-lane highways. The fact that there is a much wider distance between houses on each side of the T-M border, caused by the creek, industrial areas and highways makes T-M seem more separate than T-Y.

Transportfan said:
What's such a big deal about serving "Maple" specifically? It's just a part of a general suburban area.
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Maple has several high-ridership routes (20 Jane-Concord, 4/4A Major Mac, 85/85A/85B Rutherford-16th) and several high-profile destinations (Vaughan Mills, Canada's Wonderland, Vaughan City Hall) compared to surrounding areas (for example: Concord has industry, and that's about it; Vellore is just subdivisions). I would favour a Jane-Major Mac VIVA route as it hits Downsview Station, York U, Vaughan Metro Centre, Vaughan Mills, future Vaughan Hospital, Canada's Wonderland (when it's open), Downtown Maple, Vaughan City Hall, Maple GO Station, Mackenzie Health (York Central Hospital), Richmond Hill Central library, Yonge Street, and possibly Richmond Hill GO Station. A Rutherford-16th Avenue VIVA route might sound like a good idea, but its close proximity to Hwy 7 through Markham might cannibalize Purple/Pink ridership.
 
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I don't think you get what I said. ShonTron said Major Mack would be the best option for a Viva route because it would serve Maple (meaning the Major Mack/Keele area) There's nothing special about that area for transit service that I can see. The "Maple" you described is just a large chunk of Vaughan.
 
^^I've always thought that extending the subway beyond Highway 7 along Jane would be a good idea, as it could hit Vaughan Mills and Canada's Wonderland. Using the available land from the parking lot, an inter-city bus terminal could be located here so that travellers to and from Central and Northern Ontario who are heading to or coming from parts in the north GTA don't have to go all the way downtown or to Yorkdale to catch said bus or make their way back up.

Also, while it may not be large enough to warrant the cost of a subway connection, Maple did originate from a small village. Therefore at its core at the intersection of Major Mackenzie and Keele, it is relatively dense and mixed use. Even beyond that, while single use residential, it appears more mature with smaller homes and larger trees than your standard subdivision.
 
Nice, a $4 increase in tickets in two years...

Students, seniors hit by YRT hike

A proposed transit fare hike in York Region will hit seniors, students and children the hardest, some regional councillors warned.
However, despite efforts to “soften the blow”, the region’s transportation services committee yesterday OK’d the plan to increase fares effective Jan. 1, 2013.
“We are stuck between a rock and a hard spot,” said Richmond Hill Regional Councillor Vito Spatafora.
Overall, the adult cash fare will increase by 25 cents, from $3.50 to $3.75, and tickets from $2.80 to $3.
A student pass will go from $85 to $95, senior/child pass from $50 to $59 and adult pass from $115 to $125.
While the average increase is about 7 per cent across the board, the proposed student and senior pricing will jump as much as 18 per cent.
Richard Leary, general manager of York Region Transit, said that’s because these categories have been kept close to or at a 0-per-cent increase for many years.
The fares remain in line with the GTA average, he said, adding YRT is still recovering ridership after a three-month strike that ended in January.
The proposed hike is estimated to up the cost-recovery ratio to 39 per cent next year from this year’s 36 per cent.
With 60 per cent of the rides being subsidized by taxpayers, York Region chairperson and CEO Bill Fisch said the proposed hike is about long-term gain.
“No one has had a 12-per-cent increase in their salaries, but that’s not what this is about,” Mr. Fisch said. “All this costs money. It’s not free.”
Georgina Mayor Robert Grossi unsuccessfully tried to broker a deal at the meeting by taking $5 off each of the proposed fares for adult, student and senior/child passes.
The reduction would have meant a $350,000 loss in the projected $3-million revenue.
“It’s a softer blow,” he said.
YRT/Viva fare revenue has risen steadily for the past five years to $51.5 million in 2011 from $41.3 million in 2007.
It’s the first transit agency to announce a fare change for 2013 due to the timing of the approval process.
Regional council will have a final vote on the proposed fare hike Sept. 20.
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http://www.yorkregion.com/news/article/1497479--students-seniors-hit-by-yrt-hike

So a pre-purchase discount fare is now going to cost the same as a regular TTC fare, and if I'm not mistaken, the same or more as most other GTA regular fares. I'm glad I have a car and got a really good bike over the summer, because these fares are getting ridiculous.

Also, does anyone know if YRT drivers are still the lowest paid in the GTA? If they still are, then this makes me even madder!

Finally, GO would be smart to begin running their Yonge St service again. If I am to be paying this much, I think I'd consider paying a little extra to enjoy the comfort and speed of GO instead. And I'm near Bernard, so this is probably especially true for those commuting from Newmarket and Aurora and have to pay $4 per ride on Viva.
 
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