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September 11th: Real or Fraud?

Was 9/11 an inside job?

  • Yes

    Votes: 46 33.8%
  • No

    Votes: 90 66.2%

  • Total voters
    136
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Since when has the gov't told the truth? Until they do (they never will) the 100% truth will never come out. The whole point of the thing was for "show." So all we can do is speculate. It's fun.:D

I certainly don't believe the NIST report nor the media spin. I don't believe anyone, including conspiracy theorists! All I believe in is that every gov't is fos!
 
Since when has the gov't told the truth? Until they do (they never will) the 100% truth will never come out.

Governments are very large organizations - and you don't specify which government and what particular part - so your charge is at best very foggy. In addition to this, it is only your presumption that the truth has not been told. Your apparently certain stance regarding the absence of "truth" would suggest that you know something, and that would require you to show your evidence in order to support your claim.

I certainly don't believe the NIST report nor the media spin. I don't believe anyone, including conspiracy theorists! All I believe in is that every gov't is fos!

So what if you don't believe the report, can you factually refute it?
 
Lately i haven't been bothering to read you're replies you make while quoting me Grissie because even though you it in quotes as if to reply to you it never actually address it properly, as if to dodge..

why is that just because i haven't shown what you call proof you won't discuss it?
Because verifiable evidence is absolutely necessary in order to prove your accusations of government complicity in the events of 9/11. The burden of proof is on you to support your claims. If you don't have verifiable evidence, admit it and state that all you are expressing is your mere opinion, and nothing more.

That's all terribly difficult for you to understand.

Here's a good example, actually this is even more fucked up because you answer my question by saying "Because verifiable evidence is absolutely necessary in order to prove your accusations of government complicity in the events of 9/11." You created the illusion that you answered the question, but I asked you why you're not even willing to discuss it not why i have to show what you call evidence. It's so fucked because you quote me on everything as to discuss it, but you don't even address it properly you just got back to saying the same narrow minded thing.
 
Kamuix, you can't respond to a grasping allegation in anything but "you're wrong and totally pulled that out of your ass." If you presented actual real evidence or information rather than argumentative fallacies and random accusations, then you might get the response that you want. But for the past dozen or so pages, you've raised no new issues except for "believe me guys!!1!"
 
Here's a good example, actually this is even more fucked up because you answer my question by saying "Because verifiable evidence is absolutely necessary in order to prove your accusations of government complicity in the events of 9/11." You created the illusion that you answered the question, but I asked you why you're not even willing to discuss it not why i have to show what you call evidence. It's so fucked because you quote me on everything as to discuss it, but you don't even address it properly you just got back to saying the same narrow minded thing.

It looks like you are thoroughly confused. The only thing "fucked up" is that you claim the existence of a government conspiracy regarding 9/11, but either refuse to provide any supporting evidence, or simply have none and are too afraid to admit it.

The challenge still stands Kamuix.
 
Alright then Grissie you want it? here it is: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/shootdown.html?q=shootdown.html
and here: http://www.911proof.com/

The point is the problem isn't that i don't show enough evidence, that's a front you guys use to reject everything I say at once. The problem is you guys are conditioned into societies beliefs and until you get passed that and open your mind to other possibilities you won't get anywhere.

Grissie:Yet another repetition of a prior last 30 posts.

Reason? Grissie has no evidence. Grissie doesn't know what evidence is.

So he recycles old posts in a facile attempt at stonewalling.

Grissie: where is your evidence to support your claim that everything the government has told us to this day is true even though they've been caught lying over and over? I challenge you to produce it.
 
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Yes, more "truther" sites from Kamuix - who otherwise can't tell the difference between verifiable evidence and Swiss cheese. Otherwise, the post is churlish and typically free of anything intelligent - indicative that Kamuix has been backed up into a corner and can't get out. The funny part here is that conspiracy believers can't even agree on the details of their various fantasies. The link offered by Kamuix is yet another case in point. It offers zero in terms of casual support for any conspiracy claims.

Kamuix, please provide evidence regarding a the massive collusion within the news media. Provide details on how this collusion is reinforced. Who is behind it? Who is participating? Show your evidence and your sources.

Once again Kamuix, you are making a claim for the existence of a massive government conspiracy regarding the events of 9/11. I am asking that you support your claims with verifiable evidence. I am not making any claims; I am challenging you to back yours up.
 
No. You're manipulating everything to try and make what I think about these events look ridiculous.. Give me a break!

Important Points:

I'm trying to get people to look outside the box and consider what i have to say and have shown.
I'm not offering what i say as absolute proof.
You won't offer proof for the side you're defending.
You keep making the same stupid argument over and over.
You don't address important things that I ask.
You've made up your own rule that because I made a claim I must show absolute evidence.

How the hell can you try and turn me not showing government controlled absolute proof into it being a tooth-fairy level of belief? That's BS why would you try to do that? It just shows that you have an agenda and shows exactly what it is. And yes it could be argued that because i didn't personally read official report that i perhaps should, I wouldn't necessarily call it narrow-minded, you're narrow minded. But at least I can address and and admit it whereas you won't address Sh*t unless i show you evidence that cannot be provided and for no good reason. Also obviously neither of us have read it, and I feel that I've seen more then enough to know that the official report was BS. You are completely unwilling to discuss this. All you do is use an impossible question to justify being ignorant and avoiding all my questions, my other points, anything i discussed that was a bit off topic. Not to mention avoid discussing the topic in a production way in general.
 
No. You're manipulating everything to try and make what I think about these events look ridiculous.. Give me a break!

Negative. I'm challenging you to produce verifiable evidence. No break for you on that.

I'm trying to get people to look outside the box and consider what i have to say and have shown.

Why should anyone pay attention to what you ask if you can't even provide evidence as a basis to do so? You just want unquestioning followers, and that's pathetic.

I'm not offering what i say as absolute proof.

Forget the word "absolute." You have no proof whatsoever. Try and start providing some verifiable evidence. I challenge you.

You won't offer proof for the side you're defending.

As noted on many occasions, I'm not defending a "side." You can go through the whole thread to see this - if you could actually be bothered. What I have told you repeatedly is that you have failed to properly discredit what you call the "official" record of events. More simply put, you have not bothered to refute that account, and you are clearly incapable of providing a plausible, factual, detailed chronicle of what you believe took place. As a result, you simply can't provide any supporting evidence because you have no fact-based account upon which to lend such evidence to.

You have nothing.

You don't address important things that I ask.

Where have you asked anything important?

You have an apparent weakness for confusing your state of mind as being some form of indication for the existence of conspiracy. Your fantasies are not facts.

You've made up your own rule that because I made a claim I must show absolute evidence.

That's funny. It's not my rule Kamuix. It's called the burden of proof, and the burden is on you to clarify and provide verifiable evidence to support your claims of a large-scale government conspiracy regarding the events of 9/11. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. All of this is just too much for you.

How the hell can you try and turn me not showing government controlled absolute proof into it being a tooth-fairy level of belief? That's BS why would you try to do that? It just shows that you have an agenda and shows exactly what it is

Your unsupported accusations are BS, Kamuix. Without any factual account or verifiable evidence, your conspiracy claim has the same weight as the tooth fairy story. Your disreputable belief in hidden agendas is merely more indication of your paranoid state of mind.

And yes it could be argued that because i didn't personally read official report that i perhaps should, I wouldn't necessarily call it narrow-minded, you're narrow minded.

Never mind "could." You have not read the official report. You admitted that you don't know what's in it, hence you can't even begin to start offering any reasonable refutation whatsoever. And you have the gall to call me narrow-minded? You're really grasping at straws.

But at least I can address and and admit it whereas you won't address Sh*t unless i show you evidence that cannot be provided and for no good reason.

So you address the fact that you haven't read the report you refuse to accept? That's simply stupid. And yes, if you make a claim regarding a massive criminal government collusion, I expect evidence. So would every court. There is nothing remotely unreasonable about challenging you to support your conspiracy claims with verifiable evidence. Too bad if that hurts your feelings or makes you feel deficient.

All you do is use an impossible question to justify being ignorant and avoiding all my questions, my other points, anything i discussed that was a bit off topic.

You've made a claim, now support it with evidence. If you find gathering that evidence impossible, then you have no evidence to support your claim, and that claim is invalid as there is not justification or proof of it. Your questions are not evidence, and they are certainly not interesting or even relevant. They are merely a weak attempt to evade the fact that you don't have evidence, don't know what verifiable evidence is, and that you would not have a clue about how to gather and present such evidence. Nine years on and you have zip. Pathetic.

Verifiable evidence, Kamuix. I challenge you. Either that, or admit that you have none - and no weasel words about it. Just state that you have no evidence at all to support your claim.
 
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No. You're manipulating everything to try and make what I think about these events look ridiculous.. Give me a break!

Important Points:

I'm trying to get people to look outside the box and consider what i have to say and have shown.
What makes you think people have not done that and have, in fact, rejected what you have said and shown? Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean this hasn't happened.
 
I know people have, but it's obvious that some people have an agenda. Also if you could see this issue through my eyes, you would know exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm far from someone who just believes anything he hears, I'm always staying open minded to things and that includes religion. I'm not religious or an atheist and they're are beliefs I lean towards but In my head i don't think I know what's going to happen when we die. However when it comes to politics I know what's going on in general and it doesn't take a brilliant to know what the governments lying about believe it or not. People like Grissie create the illusion that because i don't have what he calls proof, that I'm a crazy delirious person and a Conspiracy Theorists. He posts in suck a pathological manipulating way and I'd be surprised if Lucy doesn't see through it which I actually think she does. And it's shocking and sad to me to see how people can buy into deceptions and propaganda consciously and sub-consciously the way many of you guys seem to. I know according to you guys because I'm the one posting that I should post everything to prove this or else I'm crazy, but aside from that looking at it from your point of view, don't you think it's important to know if our real controllers in government are involved with destroying society and taking away our freedoms and turning our free countries into tyrannical ones? But let me guess.. it's not possible right? It's only happened in history over and over and over again. The governments only been caught lying over and over and over again. Also Lucy don't you find it strange that Grissie continues to attempt to lead the conversation in circles while refuses to discuss it for research it for himself? Despite that I'm the one posting like I said, isn't it important to you guys to know the truth? Wether you think you know right now or not? However not knowing the exact details, the information I've shown is way more than enough for you guys to become suspicious yet all you do is shoot it down as fast as possible as if to not want to get into it period.

Grissie: From a very narrow point of view that kind of makes sense.
 
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Honestly Kamuix, you are such a bush league propagandist.

However when it comes to politics I know what's going on in general and it doesn't take a brilliant to know what the governments lying about believe it or not.

If it is so easy as you claim, prove your case by providing verifiable evidence of a government conspiracy regarding the events of 9/11. That's all you have to do - if you can.

People like Grissie create the illusion that because i don't have what he calls proof, that I'm a crazy delirious person and a Conspiracy Theorists. He posts in suck a pathological manipulating way and I'd be surprised if Lucy doesn't see through it ...

No illusions Kamuix, all that is being asked for is evidence that supports your claim - and a clear description of what your actual claim is. As for proof, I'm challenging you to provide verifiable evidence. Look the word up if you don't understand what it means. As for what other people are thinking, you should let them tell you rather than pretending that you have special knowledge or insight.

And it's shocking and sad to me to see how people can buy into deceptions and propaganda consciously and sub-consciously the way many of you guys seem to.

Actually that is you Kamuix.

I know according to you guys because I'm the one posting that I should post everything to prove this or else I'm crazy, but aside from that looking at it from your point of view, don't you think it's important to know if our real controllers in government are involved with destroying society and taking away our freedoms and turning our free countries into tyrannical ones? But let me guess.. it's not possible right? It's only happened in history over and over and over again.

So why don't you just provide a clear descriptive account of what you claim took place regarding the government and 9/11, and back up that account with verifiable evidence.

Also Lucy don't you find it strange that Grissie continues to attempt to lead the conversation in circles while refuses to discuss it for research it for himself?

No circles Kammy, just the same challenge for you to prove your conspiracy claims with a descriptive account and the evidence to support your assertions. You made the claim, so it is you who is responsible for providing the research to prove your allegation and for refuting the official account. Otherwise, simply admit that you have no evidence. It's really that simple. Don't expect others to do your homework. That's just intellectual laziness on your part, or an attempted evasion from the fact that you have nothing to back up your claims.

Despite that I'm the one posting like I said, isn't it important to you guys to know the truth?

So start proving your case Kammy. That's all you need to do to start convincing people. A descriptive account and the supporting verifiable evidence to support your 9/11 government conspiracy claims is necessary. That can't be so hard for a guy who claims he is so dedicated to the truth?

However not knowing the exact details ...

You have no details, that's your problem. The challenge for you is to start producing a descriptive account of what you claim took place regarding some alleged 9/11 government conspiracy, and verifiable evidence to support your assertions. Otherwise just admit you have neither. Is that too hard for you?
 
I wasn't talking to you. You're way too far gone. Only time will wake you up now and trust me it will.
 
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