South Unionville Square (Kennedy n of 407, Mady Dev Corp, 12s, Turner Fleischer) COMPLETE

http://www.southunionvillesquare.com/home.html

This is more like how all malls should be designed - retail fronting onto (and more importantly, facing) the streets, with all the surface parking hidden in the centre where it can't be seen. This is also convenient for future development, as the parking lot could easily be changed into residential/office towers, for the which the surrounding ring of the mall would provide an automatic base without having to redevelop the mall itself. I'm surprised this is being proposed in a 905 suburb!

With Downtown Markham on one side and a large NU-ish development on the other, it's really not surprising that this stretch of Kennedy would see this type of development.

I am liking this design.

Finally a retail development of this type done pretty proppa. I wish they had done something a bit closer to this at Morningside Crossing in West Hill. They kinda mucked that one up....especially if you're comparing it to this.

I find this a great project ... a true 'mixed-use' proposal encompassing 8 storeys residential condo, office, retail, and 2 levels of underground parking !! definitely a step in the right direction for Markham ~ ... thank you Turner Fleischer Architects

further, I'm pleased to see a proposal such as this finally taking place on this segment of Kennedy Road, similar to the original vision for the 'Community Amenity' designation in the Official Plan ... rather than all the car dealerships (I call 'Auto Mall Drive Markham') that this stretch of Kennedy have largely become

I hope this development never sees the light of day. There is already a major Chinese shopping centre at Kennedy and Hwy 7, A Chinese Supermarket at Kennedy and 14th and the Monster Pacific Mall at Kennedy and Steeles...

In other words, there is enough malls that cater to a SINGLE ethnic group as oppossed to the community at large. The centre doesn't target me as a customer, but I will still have to deal with the traffic problems that it will create!!

realtycoon said:

I hope this development never sees the light of day. There is already a major Chinese shopping centre at Kennedy and Hwy 7, A Chinese Supermarket at Kennedy and 14th and the Monster Pacific Mall at Kennedy and Steeles...

In other words, there is enough malls that cater to a SINGLE ethnic group as oppossed to the community at large. The centre doesn't target me as a customer, but I will still have to deal with the traffic problems that it will create!!

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Chinese population went up 43% from 2001-2006... up 106% 96-06

probably more Chinese than White people in Markham by now (only about 600 apart last census, and number of white people is decreasing)

$$$

waterloowarrior said:

Chinese population went up 43% from 2001-2006... up 106% 96-06

probably more Chinese than White people in Markham by now (only about 600 apart last census, and number of white people is decreasing)

$$$

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That still doesn't justify a "racist" mall being built... Just walk into Pacific Mall and you will find blatant discrimination against non-Chinese by many of the shops there..

The rate the GTA is going, soon (if not already), all the GTA will be is a collection of homogeneous ethnic enclaves... Not inclusive, multicultural communities..

That's the problem with the specific retailers, not the developer. Have you been to a T&T? They've got almost everything a "white" shopper would want anyway, and it is not an exclusively a Chinese clientale. Just like the earlier generations of ethnic grocery stores that catered to Italians. As a white, third-generation Canadian, I support this development.

Markville's just down the street.

realtycoon said:

In other words, there is enough malls that cater to a SINGLE ethnic group as oppossed to the community at large. The centre doesn't target me as a customer, but I will still have to deal with the traffic problems that it will create!!

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Is this a joke? I seriously don't know.

For starters, there clearly aren't "enough malls that cater to a SINGLE ethnic group" otherwise private developers wouldn't be willing to stake the money to build this thing. This isn't rocket science. If there is demand for bubble tea and cell phone accessories, someone will try to serve that demand.

As it relates to Markham as well, Chinese-Canadians are roughly tied with White Canadians at 34% of Markham's population. They make up one 3rd of the "community at large", so to behave as though this development is catering to some demographic fringe is ridiculous. You might as well start claiming that Japan has "enough" sushi restaurants to serve a "SINGLE ethnic group."

And because you don't shop at Chinese related businesses, it shouldn't be built? Please tell me if this is sarcasm, otherwise it is ridiculous. I hate Nike shoes, I suppose we should start banning Foot Lookers by this logic? After all, Foot Looker just caters to a single group- people who like running shoes- and not the "community at large." Nobody is forcing you to shop anywhere you don't want to. Don't stop other people from shopping where they want to.

realtycoon said:

The rate the GTA is going, soon (if not already), all the GTA will be is a collection of homogeneous ethnic enclaves... Not inclusive, multicultural communities..

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It is inclusive. I'm not Chinese, I can travel to PacMall and buy whatever I want. None of these shops will have signs on the door to the effect of "Chinese only." By contrast, you are the one that seems to want to cancel a development based solely on it being Chinese themed. Real inclusive.

Realtycoon:
I agree to an extent your comments regarding the proliferation of ethnoburbs, but your comments strike me as incredibly racist and ignorant, especially for someone who claims to be a "realty tycoon".

Market dictates supply and demand, and the large concentration of Chinese Canadians in Markham means a large concentration of Chinese-oriented businesses. These malls, although being asian "themed", do not have clauses restricting the race of the owner of the business. If you want to open a western-oriented business, it's completely within your right. Thus, it is hardly racist.

In addition, places like Pacific Mall are a huge tourist draw - a contemporary 'Chinatown' - that draws people of all backgrounds who would otherwise not experience Chinese culture. Again, hardly racist. I've been there on many occasions with my non-asian friends and have never seen this "blatant discrimination" you speak of. Nor have I heard anything from them when they've gone on their own.

Finally, just because there's a Chinese name and marketing attached to the development, it doesn't mean that it's trying to be exclusively chinese. If it was, it wouldn't provide ANY marketing in English, no? You don't think the Government of Canada is trying to be exclusively French just because they have french signage and materials, do you?

Whoaccio said:

...........As it relates to Markham as well, Chinese-Canadians are roughly tied with White Canadians at 34% of Markham's population. They make up one 3rd of the "community at large", so to behave as though this development is catering to some demographic fringe is ridiculous. ..........It is inclusive. I'm not Chinese, I can travel to PacMall and buy whatever I want. None of these shops will have signs on the door to the effect of "Chinese only." By contrast, you are the one that seems to want to cancel a development based solely on it being Chinese themed. Real inclusive.

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Few points...
Markville Mall is inclusive and caters to all races, ethnic groups, languages etc... ie. 100% of the population
Chinese Malls only cater to Chinese people. (34% of the population). So what about the other 66% of the Population that has to put up with the traffic, garbage, and noise, but can't enjoy the development ???
And don't give me the arguement that they don't discriminate when signs are in Chinese ONLY at many of the Chinese malls and plazas!
There have been many times where I or people I know have had horrible experiences in Pacific Mall where shop keepers will give you dirty looks, refuse service, quote a different price etc..

299 bloor call control. said:

Realtycoon:
I agree to an extent your comments regarding the proliferation of ethnoburbs, but your comments strike me as incredibly racist and ignorant, especially for someone who claims to be a "realty tycoon".

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That's the problem.. Anytime someone raises a point against an Ethnic Mall/Development, they are accused of being a racist.. I'm not racist, but I'm against the non-inclusive nature of these developments..

Sure, they will sell/lease space to anyone, but there is a lot of discrimination behind the scenes that would spell failure for any business that is not part of the specific ethnic community of the centre.

Back in the 1990's, the Deputy Mayor of Markham raised the issue of Chinese Only signs, only to be accused of being a racist!

I believe in the Town of Markham Sign By-law, you will find the permission for non-English signage as well, but attached would also be an English store name, which is what you will see out there on storefronts .... a Chinese store name with an English translation (but usually in a different font) ... I don't see what the problems are

there's nothing particularly 'Chinese' about South Unionville Square (look at the name !!) ... any stores can open a shop here, its purely supply and demand ... as others have noted already

you probably don't see a lot of 'Chinese' stores in Markville Mall because the 'demand' isn't there, its simply choices retailers make when locating their shops ...

realtycoon said:

Few points...
Markville Mall is inclusive and caters to all races, ethnic groups, languages etc... ie. 100% of the population
Chinese Malls only cater to Chinese people.

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As a white patron of many Chinese malls and businesses, I find your comments quite presumptuous. I also don't consider myself to be part of the supposed 100% of the population that Markville Mall caters to.

I hardly think your hypersensitivity toward non-English signs and grumpy storekeepers should determine what kinds of malls should be built. Thankfully things don't work that way.