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The difference between Canada and the US in this recession

kEiThZ

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PUBLICATION: National Post
DATE: 2009.02.11
EDITION: National
SECTION: FP Comment
PAGE: FP15
BYLINE: Jeremy Leonard
SOURCE: Financial Post
WORD COUNT: 873

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Advantage Canada; The recessionary drop in U. S. consumer spending is not the same threat to Canada's economy that it once was

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Being as close as we are geographically to the United States, it is irresistibly tempting to assume that our economic destiny is inseparable from that of the Americans. In one sense, the numbers seem to speak for themselves, and are oft repeated: over three-quarters of our exports are sold in the United States -- this percentage has risen in the wake of continental free trade -- and we are therefore chained to the U. S. business cycle through good times and bad.

This "joined-at-the-hip" view is not an accurate description of current economic reality. U. S. exports represent only about a quarter of Canada's total economic output, and it is too often forgotten that we have a domestic market of 30 million people and hundreds of thousands of businesses that collectively spend $1-trillion annually on goods and services right here in Canada. Thanks to a commodities boom that started in the early 2000s, that domestic market has flourished, enriching not only the resource-producing provinces but Canadians across the country.

The engines behind this boom are the large emerging-market nations -- China in particular. This second important pillar of Canadian economic strength has buoyed our economy in the first decade of the 21st century, and will continue to do so in the aftermath of the recession.

A closer look at the proximate causes of the U. S. economic meltdown shows significant differences in underlying fundamentals that put Canada on much more solid footing. Much U. S. consumption over the past several years has been supported by housing wealth, which increased by an astonishing 66% from 2001 to 2007.

But since mid-2007, aggregate household real estate wealth has declined by nearly 15% in the United States -- the first sustained absolute decline in more than 50 years. Unprecedented levels of U. S. consumer indebtedness mean that spending power has essentially evaporated.

Household debt rose from 100% of disposable income in 2001 to a staggering 140% in 2007. Relative to income, Americans took on more debt in the last six years than in the prior four decades, and it will take time to get their balance sheets in order.

In Canada, most homeowners are in dwellings that they can afford, and the residential mortgage delinquency rate has, in fact, been trending downward for the past several years -- in sharp contrast to an increase of 50% to historical highs in the United States. Furthermore, unlike in the United States, consumption here has been underpinned primarily by strong income growth rather than by tapping home equity. The U. S. personal savings rate has averaged well below 1% of disposable income since 2005, compared to 2% to 3% in Canada. Thus, Canadian households have more savings to dip into to sustain consumption through this cyclical downturn.

Canadian consumers are in better shape because of the commodities boom. Canada has benefited from soaring demand and high prices, which have not only enriched the natural resource sector directly but also led to a significant increase in broader purchasing power.

This improvement in the "terms of trade," as it is known in economic parlance, has transferred hundreds of billions of dollars from resource-consuming countries to Canada. In such a situation, gross domestic product can significantly understate the true purchasing power of an economy.

While the strength of U. S. market demand is of critical importance to Canada's economy, these effects are heavily concentrated in the manufacturing sector, which accounts for the lion's share of exports to the United States. But manufacturers produce only about 15% of total Canadian economic output. Even in Ontario and Quebec, the factory heartland of the country, manufacturing's share of output does not exceed 20%. So reductions in U. S. demand for Canadian exports alone will not necessarily drag the entire Canadian economy into recession.

In a seemingly endless stream of gloomy economic news emanating from the United States, Canadian policymakers should step back and recognize the tectonic shifts in the global economy that will help counteract the U. S. downdraft. Yes, Canada is heading for a recession (as the recent dismal employment numbers confirm), but with smart policies to improve the competitive posture of manufacturers (which have already been hard hit by the U. S. slowdown) and a far more modest and targeted stimulus package than currently being contemplated by the Americans, it will be shorter and shallower than theirs.

Canadian consumers are nervous, but have much more savings than their American counterparts, giving them a decided advantage in purchasing power. More important, the growing importance of China and other emerging markets with regard to global commodities demand may be in the process of doing what decades of trade diversification policies have tried (and failed) to do: prevent us from becoming deathly ill when the U. S. sneezes. - Jeremy Leonard is a senior fellow at the Institute for Research on Public Policy. This article comes from the February issue of its magazine, Policy Options.
 
Advantage Canada; The recessionary drop in U. S. consumer spending is not the same threat to Canada's economy that it once was



Um, Canada suffered its first trade deficit since 1976 in Jan...
 
While he talks mostly about trade and manufacturing, he's forgetting the large percentage of services based business that are owned or operated by Americans. If they are really hurting back home, why would they spend here.
 
Um, Canada suffered its first trade deficit since 1976 in Jan...

That would happen in a global recession, particularly one where our largest customer isn't buying. The point of his article was to point out that we aren't as reliant on exports, particularly US exports as we think. That's why we are in a better position than most Canadians realize. IMO, there's some truth to that.
 
It's late March, do you still believe that? What a difference a few weeks make eh or perhaps the conservative school of thought is dead wrong? The new Canadian stats do suggest our current government and the supporters are getting it wrong.
 
It's late March, do you still believe that? What a difference a few weeks make eh or perhaps the conservative school of thought is dead wrong? The new Canadian stats do suggest our current government and the supporters are getting it wrong.

Care to show where we diverge against our favour?

Unemployment:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/subjects-sujets/labour-travail/lfs-epa/lfs-epa-eng.htm

So unemployment on par or slightly lower than the US. That's remarkable given that Canada tends to have higher unemployment even during boom times.

Budget deficits:
http://www.financialpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=1437497

Budget deficits significantly lower than the US. Even in the worse case scenario (which does not look very likely) that the provinces run a combined deficit equal to the federal government, Canada's total deficit would still be half of the US deficit as a percentage of GDP.

The result is a divergence in gross debt ratios in our favour:
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...8,528,436,112,136,111,158&s=GGD_NGDP&grp=0&a=

So our government has even greater fiscal room than the US should it be required.

All this does not even account for the differences in home foreclosure rates, bankruptcy rates, etc.

If you are going to put up empty rhetoric in your posts about how bad Canada is fairing compared to the US, at least take a minute to do a google search. Your post simply shows how much you want Canada to fail. Even in the face of evidence to the contrary you can't accept that Canada under Harper might actually be performing better off than the USA under Obama.
 
Care to show where we diverge against our favour?

Unemployment:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/subjects-sujets/labour-travail/lfs-epa/lfs-epa-eng.htm

So unemployment on par or slightly lower than the US. That's remarkable given that Canada tends to have higher unemployment even during boom times.

Budget deficits:
http://www.financialpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=1437497

Budget deficits significantly lower than the US. Even in the worse case scenario (which does not look very likely) that the provinces run a combined deficit equal to the federal government, Canada's total deficit would still be half of the US deficit as a percentage of GDP.

The result is a divergence in gross debt ratios in our favour:
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...8,528,436,112,136,111,158&s=GGD_NGDP&grp=0&a=

So our government has even greater fiscal room than the US should it be required.

All this does not even account for the differences in home foreclosure rates, bankruptcy rates, etc.

If you are going to put up empty rhetoric in your posts about how bad Canada is fairing compared to the US, at least take a minute to do a google search. Your post simply shows how much you want Canada to fail. Even in the face of evidence to the contrary you can't accept that Canada under Harper might actually be performing better off than the USA under Obama.

^Yes, I'm sure he want Canada to fail :rolleyes:

Of course we are in a better situation that the Americans. They are the ones who started this, under Bush, with the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Obama just came in, did you expect him to magically make things better as soon as he was elected? That's just not going to happen. His budget didn't even pass yet.

And before you go out saying it was the Harper government who should take the credit for us being in a better situation that the US, consider this:
During the election, he focused on bashing Dion, and said himself that we'll be just fine during the economic downturn. Remember when all the major Canadian network were claiming that there is no way we'll be in a recession, just an economic slowdown.

Of course the US deficit is bigger, we only have 1/10th their population.
If Harper is such a sound economic manager, why are we hearing about lay-offs at manufacturing plants in Ontario almost every day? Why does he do nothing about that?? $80 billion, and all Ontario will get for crucial job-creating infrastructure project is ~3B, and all of that is through the Build Canada fund, which, I might add, already holds about $3B meant for infrastructure. It's just another re-announcement. In the end, the provincial gov't will have to flip the bill with their budget (the deficit of which is almost half that of the federal budget, I might add).
 
China's growth has mainly been a result of it's trade with the west. With its largest customers cutting back, and undeveloped and protected domestic market, looking to China to save us may be futile.
 
China's growth has mainly been a result of it's trade with the west. With its largest customers cutting back, and undeveloped and protected domestic market, looking to China to save us may be futile.

The saving rate is China is huge, however. Somewhere around %16 of income. Although poor, there's well over a billion citizens, and a surprisingly active domestic market. Moreover, the government as vast reserves, and is going to do it best to keep the machine humming, as they are absolutely paranoid about social unrest as a result of this downturn.

China won't save us, but they're a welcome presence of stability at the moment.
 
Your post simply shows how much you want Canada to fail. Even in the face of evidence to the contrary you can't accept that Canada under Harper might actually be performing better off than the USA under Obama. Keithz

"I have never witnessed a recession that has not ended" As a Canadian I want Canada to succeed.

What Harper says on Fox News isn't what most of us are seeing on the ground, on main street- we can read you know, we are the ones who know Canadians who have lost their jobs, we heard Harper say on his last televised debate with those other three that there would be no deficit when in reality most of us knew there would be and we saw with our own eyes what kind of lying politician Harper was/is. I myself prefer a bastard to a bonehead and Harper is pure bonehead.

Under Harper we will wait for our American cousins to find the solutions to end this global recession and the Harper bravado sounds silly to most in light of the "evidence" out there (they all have difficulties facing them). Political pandering with respect to falling into this recession last/late in Canada is not helpful in terms of slowing it down, as we are witnessing, all the "talking points" are not changing a damn thing. Wall street should be worrying because Wall street messed up. Do you honestly believe that the cheer leading "we are the best" is key to getting out of this recession? All the information that led to this recession might never be put on the table for public viewing but "evidence" of corruption and bailouts is clearly opening up our collective eyes in Canada. Is it time to spank Harper?

Harper brags on Fox News yet avoids taking questions from the our public CBC about the current financial crisis experience here in Canada. Throwing tax dollars at failing corporations and bragging about banks but buying toxic assets from them sounds like a new form of socialism here in Canada for those in form fitting suits. Doesn't sound like bragging material to me.

I am seriously hoping that we rid ourselves of Harper and his regressive ideas. Bring on the election. The Harper government is starting to embarrass this country. Obama or any other leader in the world does not factor into my decision when I vote here in Canada.
 
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lol the govt of other countries all bought toxic assets from their banks and yet they still failed...

In Canada we are cautious and by taking those toxic assets we likely stop the water gates from opening on Bay Street.



Harper is hoping for the country to get better, however I think Igantieff will call an election before then.
 
^Yes, I'm sure he want Canada to fail :rolleyes:

Please go through jade_lee's post history. Most of his/her posts contain nothing but rhetoric with no evidence to back them up. Consider the post that prompted my response:

It's late March, do you still believe that? What a difference a few weeks make eh or perhaps the conservative school of thought is dead wrong? The new Canadian stats do suggest our current government and the supporters are getting it wrong.

Do you see any evidence to back up jade_lee's assertions?

Yes, I do believe that jade_lee would love to see Canada fail and Canadians suffer just to prove how bad the Harper government is. His/her post history proves that in spades.

Do I believe that Harper's government is responsible for Canadian resiliency? Not really. They have made some decision which are not defensible. However, the stats do bear it out. Canada has performed better in the last few years under Harper and Martin than the USA has under Bush and currently under Obama.

Of course the US deficit is bigger, we only have 1/10th their population.
If Harper is such a sound economic manager, why are we hearing about lay-offs at manufacturing plants in Ontario almost every day? Why does he do nothing about that?? $80 billion, and all Ontario will get for crucial job-creating infrastructure project is ~3B, and all of that is through the Build Canada fund, which, I might add, already holds about $3B meant for infrastructure. It's just another re-announcement. In the end, the provincial gov't will have to flip the bill with their budget (the deficit of which is almost half that of the federal budget, I might add).

I seriously hope I don't have to explain to you relative measures such as percentage of GDP. Our deficits are nowhere close. Nor is our debt load. The stats bear that out.

As to why we are hearing about lay-offs...It is a global recession. Do you seriously expect that there will be no layoffs in Canada at all as our largest export market tanks and global demand for our most valuable exports (raw materials and machinery) also tanks.

This thread is about relative performance. Nobody has yet put up any stats that say Canada is doing worse.
 
Your post simply shows how much you want Canada to fail. Even in the face of evidence to the contrary you can't accept that Canada under Harper might actually be performing better off than the USA under Obama. Keithz

"I have never witnessed a recession that has not ended" As a Canadian I want Canada to succeed.

What Harper says on Fox News isn't what most of us are seeing on the ground, on main street- we can read you know, we are the ones who know Canadians who have lost their jobs, we heard Harper say on his last televised debate with those other three that there would be no deficit when in reality most of us knew there would be and we saw with our own eyes what kind of lying politician Harper was/is. I myself prefer a bastard to a bonehead and Harper is pure bonehead.

Under Harper we will wait for our American cousins to find the solutions to end this global recession and the Harper bravado sounds silly to most in light of the "evidence" out there (they all have difficulties facing them). Political pandering with respect to falling into this recession last/late in Canada is not helpful in terms of slowing it down, as we are witnessing, all the "talking points" are not changing a damn thing. Wall street should be worrying because Wall street messed up. Do you honestly believe that the cheer leading "we are the best" is key to getting out of this recession? All the information that led to this recession might never be put on the table for public viewing but "evidence" of corruption and bailouts is clearly opening up our collective eyes in Canada. Is it time to spank Harper?

Harper brags on Fox News yet avoids taking questions from the our public CBC about the current financial crisis experience here in Canada. Throwing tax dollars at failing corporations and bragging about banks but buying toxic assets from them sounds like a new form of socialism here in Canada for those in form fitting suits. Doesn't sound like bragging material to me.

I am seriously hoping that we rid ourselves of Harper and his regressive ideas. Bring on the election. The Harper government is starting to embarrass this country. Obama or any other leader in the world does not factor into my decision when I vote here in Canada.

Once again, lots of empty rhetoric. Let's look at your original post that revived the thread and prompted the latest discussion:

It's late March, do you still believe that? What a difference a few weeks make eh or perhaps the conservative school of thought is dead wrong? The new Canadian stats do suggest our current government and the supporters are getting it wrong.

I have proven that Canada is relatively better off than the USA using published statistics. You have put up empty rhetoric with no evidence to back up anything. Do you have a single statistic that Canada is doing worse than the US?

And lest you think this is another soapbox for your vapid rhetoric, try and stay on topic: this thread is about Canada's relative performance compared to the US during this recession.
 
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Harper wouild love Canadians to believe that we are so much better off here in Canada than the rest of the world and the US but in fact we are in a "sit and wait" position as we wait for our American cousins to decide who gets what and why and it doesn't feel good on the ground knowing that Canadian interests are not always factored into these decisions.
We need a leader in Canada and not a puppet of more powerful people outside our Country.

As far as Keithz continuously opining about what I think and that I don't have evidence for what I type......The most recent information I disclosed on this site about the Sea King helicopters comes directly from Chretien.....pg 54 "My Years as Prime Minister. Personal attacks are such a bore.
 

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