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Thread: Time to deal with Zaccardelli

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    Quote Originally Posted by jade_lee View Post
    If they can't function well locally what makes you think they will do well nationally?
    I suggested that their poor professionalism arises from the fact that they have disparate roles. Local policing is a far cry from national investigations, counter-terrorism, etc. What hampers the RCMP is that they have to hire, train and equip their force for local policing while having to do all that other stuff.

    You obviously just reflexively hit reply without reading. By looking at your posts here I can only come to one conclusion. Like every other issue you have no constructive advice to offer other than to whine and complain. Wahhhh the rcmp is doing a bad job wwahhhh. Care to provide a reasonable answer on how the RCMP should be reformed?


  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by kEiThZ View Post
    I suggested that their poor professionalism arises from the fact that they have disparate roles. Local policing is a far cry from national investigations, counter-terrorism, etc. What hampers the RCMP is that they have to hire, train and equip their force for local policing while having to do all that other stuff.

    You obviously just reflexively hit reply without reading. By looking at your posts here I can only come to one conclusion. Like every other issue you have no constructive advice to offer other than to whine and complain. Wahhhh the rcmp is doing a bad job wwahhhh. Care to provide a reasonable answer on how the RCMP should be reformed?
    Sit back an watch how they will be reformed, the public is outraged about their performance at the moment. I bet you think those RCMP thugs who killed the polish man in BC just got in a wee bit of trouble? Or do you think they were justified in their actions? Do you agree with the new commissioner's comments and actions with respect to that matter specifically of late? Go read all about it on the CBC or do you despise them as well because they don't conform to you personal views? They produced a very good program tonight about the "taser" and how the RCMP did not follow the advice of our government. It appears that some agencies paid by the government don't think they have to follow the government's direction when they are given it. The RCMP are not the only rouge government agency out there but they are the ones the public are focusing in on at the moment.

    My advice, they should recognize that they are not above the law and we should hold them to the same standards that we ourselves must abide by. The police agencies cannot police themselves and all criminal investigation of police should not be done by police. Public oversight is required. Our government knows this but the politicians don't get it. Hopefully this incident with the taser will send that message.
    Last edited by jade_lee; 2009-Mar-27 at 11:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jade_lee View Post
    My advice, they should recognize that they are not above the law and we should hold them to the same standards that we ourselves must abide by.
    Another jade_lee classic. Yet again, I propose a real solution (get out of local policing and develop core competencies at the national level instead of sucking at everything) and you offer obvious rhetoric ('they are not above the law').

    Nobody on here is defending their practices with tasers or the Air India inquiry. If you actually read what I posted, I suggested that these incidents arise because they are poorly trained and regulated, in large part because they have so many roles. Local police officers train regularly to handle bar drunks and thugs. RCMP officers have to do that and counter terrorists, money launderers and drug traffickers. How in the world they are supposed to succeed at all that is beyond me. I'd rather see some roles taken away and they be given a fighting chance at success on the roles they keep.

  4. #19

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    The point I am making is that when police agencies mess up in public view the public voices their displeasure (the internet is great!) and then the public outcry causes change to happen. The cumulative effect of air India, Arar, the taser incidents, the staying of charges against police in Toroto or the lack of charges when some serious offenses by police have arisen have pushed the public into wanting serious changes to happen. This government is rather silent at the moment about the corrupt incompetence of police or the lack of oversight, yet they have the nerve to push an anti-crime agenda. I support a serious overhaul of the way police conduct their business and we have enough recommendations by learned people out there to push that agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jade_lee View Post
    The point I am making is that when police agencies mess up in public view the public voices their displeasure (the internet is great!) and then the public outcry causes change to happen.
    Obvious statement. Find me a group that does not enrage the public when they screw up in public.

    Quote Originally Posted by jade_lee View Post
    The cumulative effect of air India, Arar, the taser incidents, the staying of charges against police in Toroto or the lack of charges when some serious offenses by police have arisen have pushed the public into wanting serious changes to happen.
    Obvious statement again. Repeated screw-ups in public will always prompt the public to demand change.

    Quote Originally Posted by jade_lee View Post
    This government is rather silent at the moment about the corrupt incompetence of police or the lack of oversight, yet they have the nerve to push an anti-crime agenda.
    Random anti-government statement. Remind me again, which government called for the RCMP to review taser use?

    Still no idea presented on reform of the RCMP.

    Quote Originally Posted by jade_lee View Post
    I support a serious overhaul of the way police conduct their business and we have enough recommendations by learned people out there to push that agenda.
    So your idea is a recommendation to look at somebody else's ideas about reforming the RCMP. So you have no ideas of your own on the issue?
    Last edited by kEiThZ; 2009-Mar-26 at 11:44.

  6. #21

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    Why don't those provinces have their own police forces???

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordmandeep View Post
    Why don't those provinces have their own police forces???
    ...because they prefer to contract the RCMP to provide local law enforcement. And because the RCMP is available to accept contracts.

    It's ridiculous that they do local policing. Can anybody imagine the US government providing police service to small towns?

    The gendarmerie structure worked great in our history where we used the RCMP essentially as a military force coupled with law enforcement responsibilities. Today, I'd argue this role needs to be reformed. Arguably, the only place where the RCMP should retain some local policing responsibilities is in the North (coupled with a Northern sovereignty mandate) and possibly on federal jurisdictions (federal properties, reserves, etc.). Certainly, I see no reason why all those provinces can't start up their own police forces. If Ontario can pay and maintain a police force, surely those other provinces can too.

  8. #23

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    Of course in rural areas up north the RCMP should stay....



    If Newfoundland can pay (well of course now they can) for a provincial police so can they.

    It makes no sense for the police being used in places like Vancouver.

  9. #24

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    Who has been fired in the cases involving seriously misconduct on the side of the RCMP in the AIr India fiasco, Arar matter and now this taser incident? Not a one. Hence the cleaning house exercise within this organization hasn't even started. So what has our government done? Nothing. Hell they even advised the RCMP not to participate in the provincial inquiry because it's a federal agency and is not required to under federal law!


    A police officer should police in the community they are assigned to. They have to follow the law like we do.

    My tax dollars help pay for the many many commissions paid to recommend change in various levels of government work, I expect these to be taken seriously. It's really difficult to understand how the government on all sides makes recommendations to the RCMP about the taser and multiple use and then the RCMP change their standing orders to reflect a more liberal policy of the use of tasers.

    Why does Zacardelli still have a government job?
    Last edited by jade_lee; 2009-Mar-27 at 11:44.

  10. #25

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    Gary Mason Globe and Mail

    Wednesday, May. 20, 2009 12:29PM EDT

    It's official. The investigation conducted by the RCMP into the shooting death of a Vanderhoof, B.C. man five years ago by one of its own was botched in any number of ways.

    Such is the opinion of Paul Kennedy, head of the Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, in a report on the matter handed down today.

    While Mr. Kennedy concludes that Const. Ryan Sheremetta acted in self defence when he shot Kevin St. Arnaud three times in the early morning hours of Dec. 19, 2004, the commissioner says the investigation by the RCMP failed on several critical fronts.

    The police officer had responded to a break-in at a pharmacy in Vanderhoof, B.C., on the night of the incident. Const. Sheremetta chased the suspect across a soccer field before shooting him three times.

    In his original statement, the officer said he fell and was on his back, with the suspect charging toward him, when he discharged his firearm. But a fellow officer on the scene, Const. Colleen Erickson, told an inquest into the shooting two years ago that Const. Sheremetta was standing when he shot Mr. Arnaud.

    Perhaps not surprisingly, the RCMP chose to accept Const. Sheremetta's version of events over Const. Erickson's. She went on stress leave after the incident, never to return to active duty.

    How an officer could forget that he was actually standing when he shot a person and not lying on his back seems beyond comprehension. One can only assume he'd do this to somehow rationalize blasting an unarmed man three times with a gun. Who knows? It should be pointed out that Const. Sheremetta was also earlier found to have given misleading testimony at the inquest as it related to experience he said he had with weapons seizures. The force suspended him for those misstatements.

    Despite not believing Const. Sheremetta about the position he was in when he shot Mr. St. Arnaud, Mr. Kennedy had no problem accepting the officer’s version of events on other fronts.

    For instance, he accepted that Mr. St. Arnaud was charging at the officer even though Const. Erickson didn't observe that. He accepted Const. Sheremetta's assertion that Mr. St. Arnaud said at some point: “You're going to have to shoot me mother fucker,” and that the robbery suspect repeatedly put his hand in his pocket, giving the officer reason to believe he might have a weapon in it.

    Mr. Kennedy concluded the officer shot the man because he believed he posed “a threat of grievous bodily harm or death.”

    As for the RCMP investigation of the shooting, well, it was amateur hour right from the start, according to the commissioner.

    Const. Erickson failed to properly secure the area immediately after the shooting. Consequently, officers who soon arrived at the scene trampled over areas sensitive to forensic work. Const. Erickson should also have been removed from the scene as she was a key witness to events.

    The forensic identification squad failed to seize blood samples from the snow adjacent to Mr. St. Arnaud's body.

    The report states that the RCMP should have found non-detachment personnel to take statements from Constables Sheremetta and Erickson. Instead, they were interviewed by RCMP Corporal James MacLellan, who was their boss. Corp. MacLellan failed to interview Const. Erickson, a witness to the shooting, first. Mr. Kennedy also found the corporal asked Const. Sheremetta leading questions during the interview.

    He also failed to re-interview Const. Sheremetta once he discovered the discrepancy between his version of events and Const. Erickson.

    And on the report goes.

    Officers on the scene failed to provide sufficient material to permit a thorough blood stain analysis of the scene. The lead investigator of the shooting “demonstrated tunnel vision by his reluctance to modify his conclusions when faced with additional information that called his original conclusions into question.” The RCMP “failed to appoint a use of force expert with sufficient experience to handle a serious case dealing with a police-involved homicide.”

    The RCMP's Major Case Management model – used for all major crime investigations - was not properly applied in several areas of the investigation into the shooting of Mr. St. Arnaud, Mr. Kennedy states.

    The commissioner makes several recommendations regarding training and evidence collection that, in my opinion, will be forgotten by tomorrow.

    Unfortunately, Mr. Kennedy didn't make the one recommendation that could truly have an impact: in the future, police should not investigate police.



    HERE WE GO AGAIN!

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    ^ What does this have to do with Zaccardeli? The incident was before his time. And the complaints process is one that was inherited and mandated by the federal solicitor-general.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by kEiThZ View Post
    ^ What does this have to do with Zaccardeli? The incident was before his time. And the complaints process is one that was inherited and mandated by the federal solicitor-general.
    The Zaccardelli departure was the tip of the iceberg in my opinion. The focus is still on our RCMP and their failure to police themselves. Their credibility is wearing thin. Zaccardelli was not dealt with appropriately as others in RCMP continue to be protected from prosecution of criminal behaviour. This particular case is interesting because they pit cop against cop, admit to a flawed investigation in favor of the accused cop and then conclude the shooting to kill by the accused cop was appropriate in that the shooter is not to be prosecuted for the killing.

  13. #28
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    This was reported on Calgary CBC on 16 February - so, you get arrested in someone's home and get assigned to desk duties. Hmmm

    RCMP are investigating after a member of the force was arrested in Cochrane, Alta., in an alleged break-in.

    Police said that just before 4 a.m. Sunday the relative of a Cochrane homeowner found an off-duty RCMP member inside the home.

    When confronted and ordered to leave, the individual acknowledged being a constable and left the home.

    Police soon after took a suspect into custody, and the individual was later released pending the outcome of an investigation.

    RCMP spokesman Cpl. Wayne Oakes said the suspect remains on police duty, but is limited to administrative chores.

    Oakes said members of the RCMP General Investigation Section from Calgary are looking into the matter, and an independent citizen-observer from Cochrane's Protective Services Advisory Committee has access to all aspects of the investigation to ensure the probe is diligent and unbiased.

    Once the investigation is complete, the matter will be turned over to the Crown to determine whether charges are warranted, police said.

  14. Default

    ^ What do you expect them to do in that situation? Keep in mind they are presumed innocent until proven otherwise. You can't suspend them from their duties on the presumption of guilt. That's against the law. The best they can do is take that individual off the beat till they are either convicted or the charges are dropped (or fail in court).

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