507 Long Branch

Former 507 Long Branch streetcar route to ride again?
BY DAVID NICKLE
January 22, 2008
Toronto Community News

When the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) decided to extend the 501 Queen Street car into south Etobicoke 12 years ago, it was with the idea of improving service.

On Wednesday, Jan. 23, commissioners will be looking at turning back the clock, stopping the Queen car at the Humber River, and re-instating the old 507 Long Branch route, for exactly the same reason.

Service on the Queen Street streetcar route - the longest in the city - has deteriorated for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the route's prodigious length, stretching from Long Branch in the west to Victoria Park Avenue in the east.

The TTC is looking at a variety of measures to improve the reliability of the streetcar, including adding drivers and streetcars, monitoring scheduling more closely, and making the route itself shorter.

Ward 6 (Etobicoke Lakeshore) Councillor Mark Grimes said cutting off the Queen car at Humber makes sense - and is long overdue.

"That would suit me just fine," said Grimes.

"I've had a lot of complaints about the service along the Lakeshore here. People waiting half an hour for streetcar service is unacceptable. If they brought back the 507 streetcar, that would be a terrific improvement."

According to the report going before Wednesday's commission meeting, the Long Branch streetcar was originally eliminated and the Queen car extended to spare south Etobicoke commuters the inconvenience of making a transfer at the Humber loop.

The report says condominium development in south Etobicoke and the heavier ridership that comes with that makes it more desirable than ever to avoid the transfer at the Humber River. However, given the problems with the rest of the route, it acknowledges that the inconvenient transfer could be the lesser of two evils.

The matter is being debated at Wednesday's TTC meeting.

Seems like the right thing to do.

The TTC would then have two routes on the entire surface system that don't go through a subway station. Not that this matters. I think service reliability easily trumps the inconvenience of a quick transfer.

I've been hearing that there's issues with streetcar service on Roncesvalles as 504 cars are often short-turned at Queen. Perhaps the 501 should be cut back at Roncesvalles/Sunnyside and create a new 507 from Dundas West to Long Branch.

The 507 to Dundas West is a great idea.

A possibility would be in rush hours, turn evey second 504 at Roncesvalles, and passengers caught on the *scheduled* 504A trips could take their pick of a regular 504 or a 507. The reason I suggest the 504A is to reduce congestion at DUndas West, and to allow for a more regularized pattern of short-turns rather than the luck-of-the-draw passengers in Parkdale deal with now.

Does a significant number of passengers cross the Roncesvalles treshold anyway, 10-12 people? There's a great presidence for short-turning all 501s at Ronci, as it's a totally different market being catered to westwards.

DENTROBATE54 said:

Does a significant number of passengers cross the Roncesvalles treshold anyway, 10-12 people?

Click to expand...

Actually, yes. And with development along the Queensway corridor, even more likely with time...

On page 12 of the July 2006 TTC-TWRC Waterfront Transit EAs Demand
Forecasting Report under new service, it states that the "507 Long
Branch speed 17kph Dufferin to Union headway 10min Operating between
Long Branch and Union Station via Lake Shore, Queensway, King W.,
Dufferin, Exhibition Grounds, and Queens Quay West." (as per the report)

At the WWF EA meeting tonight, the 507 will run along the Lake Shore,
Queensway, Lake Shore, CNE, Fleet, Fort York to Union by Ronscevalle Ave.

Soon after moving downtown, I decided to ride every streetcar line as a way of getting to know the city. On the trip back from Long Branch, several people actually stayed on the streetcar right until Yonge St. Overall though, I agree that it would make perfect sense to run all former 507 cars up to Dundas West.

I ride the Kingcar from and to Dundas West Station, and I while think adding a third car which terminates/begins at this station could be a good idea, I just don't see there being enough space..

p5

P5 is right. At rush hour you often see five or even six streetcars crammed in the station and backed up onto the street (some of them can be ALRV's too). Many times I've had to wait several minutes in a streetcar on Dundas Street for room to open up for another car to pull in. There's no capacity for another route in there without demolishing the station and completely redesigning it.

Is there not a plan in the late stages of design right now to move the Humber loop further west to Park Lawn?

Jonny5 said:

Is there not a plan in the late stages of design right now to move the Humber loop further west to Park Lawn?

Click to expand...

Yes there is, but many are suggesting that since the point of the goal is to make the loop more easily accessible to the development, expanding pedestrians paths will accomplish the goals for a lower price. However, I don't know how far along the project is. It might be too far to stop.

Jonny5 said:

P5 is right. At rush hour you often see five or even six streetcars crammed in the station and backed up onto the street (some of them can be ALRV's too). Many times I've had to wait several minutes in a streetcar on Dundas Street for room to open up for another car to pull in. There's no capacity for another route in there without demolishing the station and completely redesigning it.

Click to expand...

And I'd also be concerned about compounding the King/Queen/Roncy transit bottleneck with additional cars from the west turning up to Dundas West...

I'd have to agree, Adma. That intersection is already a mess, and adding yet another difficult left turn won't make it any better. I must say that if the number of people riding east of Roncesvalles is small, the number riding north to Dundas West from Long Branc must be truly minuscule. Why would you do it? Unless you're coming from a couple condos on the Queensway, there are lots of buses that would get you to the subway much quicker. They'd better hope those Polish butchers get really popular.

I think the idea is more about "two birds with one stone". Improving service on Roncesvalles at the same time as reviving the 507. Local service in mind, not through service.