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View Poll Results: Which transit plan do you prefer?

Voters
81. You may not vote on this poll
  • Transit City

    63 77.78%
  • Ford City

    18 22.22%
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Thread: Transit City Plan

  1. #7726

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbt View Post
    Is this what Stintz initially proposed and Ford rejected? Short extension of Sheppard subway, aboveground Eglinton, and BRT on Finch?
    Based on most of the polls her on UT, aboveground Eglinton as per Transit City is not the best option.


  2. #7727

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    Only for the central portion its not - in the east its perfect

  3. #7728

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurlOak View Post
    Based on most of the polls her on UT, aboveground Eglinton as per Transit City is not the best option.
    I forgot to add, if Stintz thought it was an improved plan, why did she not bring it to Council.

  4. #7729
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bridgetown, Barbados. No, really!
    Posts
    1,625

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BurlOak View Post
    I forgot to add, if Stintz thought it was an improved plan, why did she not bring it to Council.
    Because the mayor refused her compromise. I'm not certain that Stintz thought her compromise was the best plan, she thought it was a honest brokering between council and the mayor.

    And, for BMO: this wasn't an 'Option C' by your criteria, but rather a compromise between A & B. Option C, quite frankly, might well be the DRL before everything else. BUT, and its a BIG but, Transit City was funded, EA'd, and ready to go. A plan in hand is worth much more than scrapping everything AGAIN to chase after a mythical 'Option C' (especially since not even Metrolinx and TTC's experts can agree to one agenda, much less the politicians.)

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BurlOak View Post
    I forgot to add, if Stintz thought it was an improved plan, why did she not bring it to Council.
    It could not win the vote.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
    Eglinton needs a subway long before Sheppard. Sheppard can wait.
    In theory I agree with you. Only problem is Sheppard is the one that has an unfinished subway.

    I feel a lot of this is residual sour grapes that Sheppard got built before Eglinton (and the real reason people want to convert Sheppard to LRT, even though it's not fiscally responsible to do so).

  7. Default

    just a general question due to curiousity:

    Buryiing the eglinton line and using LRT vehicles is supposed to take up most of the 8.4B in funding from Ontario...in that same price you can get Eglinton LRT with eastern unburied, finch LRT and sheppard LRT.

    I was curious to know in a general sense (and i think the special meeting touched on this at some point) would there have been (significant) savings if eglinton could have been buried completed while using regular subway rolling stock? My understanding is that LRTs cost more than regular subway trains for a number of reasons, and I was just curious to know about this.

  8. #7733

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    My understanding there would be no savings at least in the present., The stations would be large for one so the extra constructions costs and labour. I went to an open house design for Keele and the station was really small. I was told its a box about the the size of the LRT which is why they could not add another entrance that i enquired about and felt should be there. they said they would need to build a foundation and then the stairs, etc. And this was just to add another entrance never mind you would need a way bigger box for the subway cars and platform

  9. #7734

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    Also, the ink has dried on the blueprints, design, orders, etc. Because the trains only get power from overhead wires, the tunnels need to be larger to accommodate them.

    If all options were on the table, an Eglinton subway using metro trains would probably come to $7 billion, while using light rail vehicles comes to $8 billion.

  10. Default

    Here I am trying to compile a list of major trip generators along the proposed Eglinton line, and Sheppard subway extension. Trip generators that are accessible by a short bus or subway ride are denoted by (*):

    Scarborough Centre - Scarborough Town Centre, Scarborough Civic Centre, Government of Canada, Telus, TD Waterhouse, RBC, Toyota Canada (*), Centennial College (*), CTV (*)
    Kennedy/Sheppard - Agincourt Centre, Reuters (1km walk), Delta hotel (1km walk)
    Victoria Park/Sheppard & Consumers Road - Shoppers Drug Mart, Direct Energy, Hallmark Cards, Enbridge, Rogers, Universal Studios, World Wrestling Entertainment, Eastern Construction, Securitas, Unisys, Days Inn, Radisson, many others
    Don Mills/Sheppard: Fairview Mall, Seneca College (*), National Post (*), Realtor (*), Thales (*), a number of other employers around York Mills/Don Mills
    Leslie/Sheppard: North York General Hospital, Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine
    Bayview/Sheppard: Bayview Village
    Yonge/Sheppard: Teachers Pension Plan, Invesco Trimark, Franklin Templeton, Nestle, RBC, Toronto District School Board, Cadbury, Toronto Centre for the Arts
    Bathurst/Sheppard: Prosserman Jewish Community Centre (*)
    Downsview: Downsview Airport (*), Downsview Park (*), York University (*), Yorkdale Mall (*)

    Victoria Park/Eglinton: Eglinton Square
    Wynford Drive/Don Mills & Eglinton: Celestica, Ontario Science Centre, Home Depot, McDonald's Canada, Bell, Shops at Don Mills (*)
    Leslie/Eglinton: Wrigley Canada (*), Four Seasons Hotels (*)
    Bayview/Eglinton: Sunnybrook Hospital (*), CNIB (*), Glendon College (*), Holland Bloorview Kids Rehabilitation Hospital (*), Toronto Rehabilitation Institute (*), and CAMH (*)
    Yonge/Eglinton: RioCan, Canadian Tire, TVO, Investors Group, Thomas Cook
    Scarlett/Eglinton: West Park Healthcare Centre
    Renforth/Eglinton (unfunded extension): Citigroup, SimplexGrinnell, Ricoh Canada, Pepsi Canada, General Mills Canada, HP, Canadian Standards Association, Investment Planning Counsel of Ontario, Nokia Siemens, Telus, Bell, Research in Motion, TD, Hasbro Canada, Accenture, Cotton Ginny Limited, Nissan, Carlson Marketing, Intuit, Canada Post (some of these require a bus ride), many others
    Pearson Airport: Airport Terminal 1, Airport Terminal 3

    I collected most of these from Google Maps/Google Street View, please suggest any errors/omissions

    Also notice that there is very little employment on the Eglinton line between Yonge and the airport, so I think that the phase 2 unfunded extension (as heavy rail) to Pearson Airport is ESSENTIAL to achieving high ridership, connecting with the huge employment areas in Mississauga around the airport will increase ridership and relieve the busiest section of Hwy 401 (just east of the 409, and tends to be worse going west in AM and east in PM)
    Last edited by andrewpmk; 2012-Mar-04 at 15:00. Reason: Forgot Celestica

  11. #7736

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulse View Post
    In a word, amalgamation.

    A multi-billion dollar line that is perceived to only serve downtown just isn't politically feasible, not without doing something for the suburbs first.
    I don't think amalgamation has anything to do with it. Downtown councilors (Jack Layton in particular) had no interest before amalgamation when a DRL was considered in the 80's.

  12. #7737

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    What's that list supposed to prove?

    I don't think local bank branches, local drug stores, or Hallmark Cards are the trip generators that you make them out to be. This is not justification for.

    I also find the large number of (*) destinations funny. The biggest ones (the college and university campuses) aren't even on the subway and as you so convincingly put it, only a short bus ride away, where short means a transfer wait and 10-15 minutes or longer ride.

    If anything that just proves subway is poorly suited for widely dispersed destinations in the suburbs.

  13. #7738

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    I was thinking the same thing. I mean the jewish community centre - are you serious. And the Toronto Arts Centre is already on closer to the Yonge subway stop at Park Home. I could go on.

  14. #7739

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleo View Post
    What's that list supposed to prove?

    I don't think local bank branches, local drug stores, or Hallmark Cards are the trip generators that you make them out to be. This is not justification for.

    I also find the large number of (*) destinations funny. The biggest ones (the college and university campuses) aren't even on the subway and as you so convincingly put it, only a short bus ride away, where short means a transfer wait and 10-15 minutes or longer ride.

    If anything that just proves subway is poorly suited for widely dispersed destinations in the suburbs.
    You would wait longer for those same trips if LRT (which is slower) is implemented. Both subway and LRT would still require you to wait 10-15min transfer ride to bus on these routes, so I don't understand how this proves that LRT is more suitable, just that subway gets you to the transfer point quicker than LRT.

  15. Default

    I think what it means is depending on the situation, the limiter is going to be the low frequency of the connecting buses rather than the speed of LRT vs. subways.

    AoD

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