Transit City Plan

[Tulse]

There is everything that precludes a DRL, whether under Transit City or Ford City, and that's the fact that none of the $8.4 billion (give or take) available for the next decade (give or take) will be used on a DRL. [...] According to the website drlnow.com, a DRL from Dundas West to Eglinton would be just under (wait for it) $8 billion, and phase one of that (from Cityplace to Eglinton) would cost $6 billion.

Right, so we either get a single DRL line, or a network of LRTs that extend across the city and provide access to underserved areas. The DRL is vitally important, but so is better transit access to the less-served areas.

In any case, there seems to be no political interest or will in advocating for the DRL, which is sad, but also the reality. The pot of money available is available for Transit City or something like it -- there is no way to repurpose it to a DRL. At the end of the day, what's on the table is a researched, engineered, and funded system of LRTs. The DRL is none of these things, however much it should be.

[smallspy]

I hope that TC supporters not only show their support for TC but also bring forward the very legitimate concerns many, including myself, have with it.
First, it's not at all rapid, this is local service on a ROW. Finch and Sheppard should have one-third the number of stops they have.

Your opinion, and certainly not one shared by both the experts paid to do the work nor by the people living along the lines. I also suppose you didn't hear that most of the people who attended the open houses wanted MORE stops, to make it easier for them to access the line....

Second, better align the routes. I think the idea of Sheppard not going to STC was sheer lunacy.

Why? Most ridership along the Sheppard corridor does not want to travel to the STC - like Finch, they want to travel to somewhere else along Sheppard. If they want to travel to STC, there will be a number of good transit connections for them, not the least of which will be the extended SRT.

Third, do it on a budget. $1.2 billion for an tiny little 6 km SRT conversion is obscene. It shouldn't cost more than $200 million and should only require the line to be shut for 8 months to a year.

Based on what, exactly? Every station will have to be rebuilt, not to mention the "tunnel" north of Ellesmere as well as a completely new Kennedy Station facility. How, pray tell, is that only going to take 8 months - or a year - to build when you are doing so above and around existing facilities that can not be shut down?

Do you have experience building or managing multi-million dollar contracts? Or bidding them out?

Better yet just up grade the SRT with MK111 and save the over $1 billion by taking the line to the airport.

Right, let's just revisit that mistake again. Oh, by the way, the line still has to be closed to rebuild it for the new cars. Just so you know.

Fourth, make use of existing rail ROW and hydro corridors.

I don't disagree with this, but it has to make sense in terms of where the travel corridors are located. Using a hydro corridor for the sake of it being there is almost as bad as building a subway line to nowhere. Oh, wait a minute....

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

[sixrings]

i can understand how residents want more stops. however the eastern and western leg of the eglinton lime doesnt really have many residents. the eastern side is mainly businesses and the western side doesnt have any residential that faces eglinton, instesd there is green space (richview corridor). also there could be a handful of people who live somewhere and argue for a stop, does that justify a stop? also will the lrt stop at every stop or only when someone rings a bell? also if they connect the srt to the eglinton line to reduce transfers at kennedy wouldnt that mean that the line needs to be as fast as possible to keep the riders from transferring? i understand the situation with the retirement home and how the people there would have trouble walking 500 meters to a stop but the truth is they would have difficulty walking 200ms, and if you say this justifies a spot how do you say no to the next residential request? everyone wants a stop at their doorstop and then no stops until their destination. if we place the stops only at major intersections at least there is logic in who can request a stop in the future.

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It is rather ironic that the community seems to want their cake and eat it too. They will have to choose - either speedy transit service or more frequents stops, not both. Just because it is going to be at grade and that frequents stops are possible (but undesirable) shouldn't mean the line should be implemented like an urban streetcar system.

AoD

[sixrings]

i agree. its suppose to be a lrt but with all these stops we could be turning it into a streetcar. if we want to make street car lines id suggest bathurst and durrerin instead.

[rbt]

Couldn't agree with you more. Harris is a huge part of the reason that I now have an inherent distrust of conservative politicians. They always seem to screw things up. And the actions of His Worship Mayor Rob Ford only reaffirms this belief that I have.

Neither Harris or Ford were fiscal conservatives. You run it by the numbers (cost and benefit) and come out with the answer. Both worked from their gut (they believe) rather than fact.

Stintz is much more of a fiscal conservative than Ford is (evaluating a business case, performing risk analysis, etc.):
1) Business case on Eglinton: Are left hand turns over a 10 block span worth $2B. Would they enable generation of $2B of tax revenue over a 50 year period?
2) Risk Anaylsys: Is it probable the city will be able to fund expansion on Sheppard and Finch in a reasonable time frame. Based on Chong's report, this is a no.

[kkgg7]

All well and good for the young and the fit, but people with accessibility problems (the people living with the giant retirement home halfway between Royal York and Scarlett for example) will probably have a lot of difficulty with a 500m walk to their local stop.

Yes, they will, not to sound cruel but they would need to find a way to deal with it. You can't satisfy everyone's need. You don't build unnecessary stop just because a very limited number of handicapped people might need it. They can use the bus service.

Your argument is invalid. Should I say that again, nowhere in the world has subway stops everything 400-500 meters in the suburbs, not even Paris or London.

[W. K. Lis]

Will the Transit City use optional stops and stations? Would a passenger have to press a REQUEST STOP button to have the light rail train stop at the next stop or station? If there is no one at a stop or station, AND no one pressed the request button, would the train continue through the stop or station? If so, than the stop spacing maybe enough, if not, than wider spacing maybe required along with stopping at every stop or station.

Looks like the trains would be stopping at every stop or station, unless I'm wrong.

[Juan_Lennon416]

It is rather ironic that the community seems to want their cake and eat it too. They will have to choose - either speedy transit service or more frequents stops, not both. Just because it is going to be at grade and that frequents stops are possible (but undesirable) shouldn't mean the line should be implemented like an urban streetcar system.

AoD

Ah but what if the majority choose the option of more stops? Do we respect their wishes or do we force residents to accept less stops and faster transit?

[M II A II R II K]

And if the Don Mills LRT is back does that mean that the DRL would only go up to Pape and force yet another transfer...

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Juan Lennon:

No, if everyone decided to add a station here and there you'd defeat the whole purpose.

Mark:

Don Mills isn't on the menu - and besides, unless one builds the DRL in one go all the way to the northern terminus some form of transfer will have to exist.

AoD

[Juan_Lennon416]

The only thing I do not like about LRTs is that you cannot implement the Request a Stop program

[TheTigerMaster]

The only thing I do not like about LRTs is that you cannot implement the Request a Stop program

I really hope that the Request a Stop program does not get implemented. All it does is cause delays. And I never liked that the privilege was never given to all TTC customers. In a wold where we're calling for gender equality, it seems a little unfair that only women can use the program.

[Juan_Lennon416]

I really hope that the Request a Stop program does not get implemented. All it does is cause delays. And I never liked that the privilege was never given to all TTC customers. In a wold where we're calling for gender equality, it seems a little unfair that only women can use the program.

It cannot be implemented because you cannot stop an LRT away from a signalized intersection and have people jaywalking

[Tulse]

I never liked that the privilege was never given to all TTC customers. In a wold where we're calling for gender equality, it seems a little unfair that only women can use the program.

Actually:

The Request Stop program is available to anyone travelling alone by bus between 9:00pm and 5:00am.