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Tory Plan to Boost Alberta, BC in Parliament, Reduce Ontario

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Seats redistribution unfair to Ontario, McGuinty says

GLORIA GALLOWAY

November 15, 2007

OTTAWA -- Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has condemned the reintroduction of federal legislation that he says shortchanges his province as it increases and redistributes the seats in the House of Commons.

The bill is aimed at increasing seats in fast-growing Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta, where the average population per riding is 30,000 to 40,000 above those in most other provinces.

But, while it ensures that the number of British Columbians and Albertans necessary to elect a member of Parliament would approximate the national average, Ontario would remain under-represented.

"It will undermine some of our most cherished democratic rights: representation by population; one person, one vote; equality under the law and effective representation," Mr. McGuinty said in a strongly worded statement.

"When important national decisions are made, Ontarians will not have the same right to have their voices heard, or their views count compared to Canadians living in B.C., Alberta or Quebec. In fact, Ontarians will have weaker representation in the federal Parliament than Canadians living anywhere else in Canada."

The legislation, which was first put forward last spring but died when Parliament was prorogued, is written in such a way that Quebec's ratio of voters to MPs becomes the benchmark. Any provinces more populous than Quebec - Ontario is the only one - would not enjoy the full benefits.

In 2021, Ontario's share of the national population is expected to reach 40.4 per cent while its share of seats will be 35.6 per cent, an under-representation of 4.8 percentage points or 12 per cent. The Ontario under-representation in 2011 is projected at 4.3 percentage points. By that year, the new distribution would mean the average constituency in Ontario would have 115,299 voters. That compares with the average constituency in Quebec, which would have 104,552 voters, the average constituency in Alberta with 105,551 voters, and the average constituency in British Columbia with 105,698 voters.

"The Ontario government is surprised and disappointed that the federal government has chosen to weaken the voting rights of Ontarians," Mr. McGuinty said. "That is why our government will take all necessary measures to halt this constitutional amendment."

Nor is Quebec pleased with the proposed redistribution. All three parties in the National Assembly have unanimously adopted a motion calling on the House of Commons to oppose the legislation.

Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe pointed to a letter yesterday from B.C. Conservative MP James Moore that says British Columbia and Alberta currently have 62 seats in Parliament between them while Quebec has 75 seats. Under the new distribution, says the letter from Mr. Moore to his constituents, "British Columbia and Alberta will have a combined 76 seats while Quebec will continue to have 75 seats."

That rankled the Bloc Leader. "From now on, Alberta and B.C. will have more than Quebec," he said. "It seems that it was the goal of the whole thing."

B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell, on the other hand, applauded the legislation, saying it recognizes his province's growing population.

The plan would eventually add 22 seats to the Commons, all of them in Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta. Ontario would get 10, British Columbia seven and Alberta five. Those seats would probably come into play around 2014.

No province, save Ontario, will have a gap of more than one percentage point between its seat allotment and its share of the national population.
 
Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe pointed to a letter yesterday from B.C. Conservative MP James Moore that says British Columbia and Alberta currently have 62 seats in Parliament between them while Quebec has 75 seats. Under the new distribution, says the letter from Mr. Moore to his constituents, "British Columbia and Alberta will have a combined 76 seats while Quebec will continue to have 75 seats."

That rankled the Bloc Leader. "From now on, Alberta and B.C. will have more than Quebec," he said. "It seems that it was the goal of the whole thing."

What's the problem with that? Alberta and B.C. have a combined population of around 7.9 million, which is more than Quebec's 7.7 million.
 
The problem is that the Conservatives are trying to increase representation of their "safe" ridings and pretending they are being fair by increasing Ontario ridings but not by a proportional amount.

It's far from fair because they are trying to justify having "proportional" in their own strongholds while short changing everyone else.

Basically the usual have your cake and eat it too mentality. Unless you want Canada to go to the redneck Conervative government that is...
 
My quote indicated that I was referring to Duceppe's complaints which have no justification.

That Ontario is the only underrepresented province is unfair to Ontario, not Quebec. This plan doesn't "shortchange" anyone but Ontario.
 
Here's Ontario MP and Harper attack dog Peter "Barney Rubble" Van Loan's take on the making every other province have seats at the national average and severely short-changing Ontario:

"The reason for not having the full top-up for Ontario is that Ontario already has the most seats in the House of Commons. Ontario does very well, but we don't want to have so many politicians that there's no room in this House."
 
My quote indicated that I was referring to Duceppe's complaints which have no justification.

That Ontario is the only underrepresented province is unfair to Ontario, not Quebec. This plan doesn't "shortchange" anyone but Ontario.

You didn't quite get my meaning. The Ontario seats were dumped in to make it be "perceived" that they are equalizing by population. It's a ruse.

By definition of equalization by population Ontario should get more seats than what is presented but it is clearly not the case.

Harper et al. are trying to pull a fast one but nobody is dumb enough to fall for it.

I think the Conservative strategists are trying to force an election and need something to cause it. This would probably be it. I'm hoping that Quebec will now see that Harper really isn't any good but given Dions' showing it really is hard to say.

It's a potential multi-layered political strategy. I could explain it to you but I'm hoping you can put the pieces I've strung up there together yourself (as explaining it is tiresome and wordy).
 
Wow. Van Loan is completely out to lunch. So Ontario isn't worthy of proper representation because "we have enough". Incredible.

Perhaps if this goes through, Ontario should take a page from the District of Columbia, in particular, its licence plates.

Dctaxation.jpg
 
I don't think the Cons are trying to force an election on this one - but I think that, if the Libs have any balls, they will take this issue as election bait. How could the Cons you campaign in Ontario and Quebec with this as a central campaign issue. It's death.

Unfortunately, the Libs have no balls. This issue will drift away amid the stupid circus of Airbus II.

Good for McGuinty though. He's turning out to be the only sensible opposition to these goons.
 
^That is actually the travesty here, Ontario MP's Conservative, Liberal and NDP are NOT going to challenge Harper on this one. John Tory is also towing the line through an attempt to change the subject to something about Northern Ontario representation. I was reading opinion pieces on the subject and I can't believe how many non-Ontarians are OK and even sometimes strongly for the concept of under representation of Ontario in the house of Commons.
 
From the Star:

Van Loan belittles McGuinty in MP dispute
Nov 20, 2007 07:31 PM
Keith Leslie
THE CANADIAN PRESS

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty is becoming the "small man of Confederation" by demanding 21 additional seats in the House of Commons instead of living up to the province's historic role as a nation builder, the federal government charged Tuesday.

Conservative House Leader Peter Van Loan upped the rhetoric in his war of words with McGuinty over Ottawa's bill to increase the number of seats in Parliament to reflect population growth in Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia.

"Dalton McGuinty seems to be abandoning the traditional role of an Ontario premier, which would see Ontario's interests protected while at the same time advancing the strength of Confederation," Van Loan said in an interview.

"He seems to prefer to become the small man of Confederation, focusing only on taking partisan shots while not concerned about the strength of Canada as a whole."

Van Loan, who represents a southern Ontario riding in the Commons and is also the minister responsible for democratic reform, said the Atlantic provinces, Manitoba and Saskatchewan would all lose seats in Parliament if the government adopted the true ``representation-by-population" formula McGuinty seems to support.

The Conservative's Democratic Representation bill would give BC seven new MPs, Alberta five and Ontario 10 – 11 fewer than the province would get if it was being treated the same as the other fast-growing provinces, McGuinty said.

"Prime Minister Harper made the right kind of commitment to put in place a new law governing the number of seats for Alberta, B.C. and Ontario, because we were under-represented in the House of Commons," McGuinty said before a Liberal caucus meeting.

"He's fixing the problem for Alberta, he's fixing it for B.C., but he's only taking half measures with respect to fixing it for Ontario."

McGuinty has been lobbying Ontario MPs to ask them to raise the issue in Parliament, and has been holding talks with federal Liberal Leader Stephane Dion and NDP Leader Jack Layton to enlist their help in getting more Commons seats for Ontario as part of a broad public campaign.

He appears to have an ally in Dion, who fired an angry volley Tuesday condemning Van Loan's "inappropriate remarks" and demanding that the minister apologize to McGuinty and all Ontario residents.

"Instead of engaging in a meaningful debate on the issue, the Conservatives sink right down into mud-slinging and name calling – it shows the weakness of their arguments," Dion said in a statement.

"The ridiculous comments made by Minister Van Loan are contemptible at best, and disrespectful of the office that Mr. McGuinty was recently re-elected to hold."

McGuinty insisted Harper's plans would shortchange Ontario and cannot be justified, but as to whether it's because of a perceived lack of public support for the federal Conservatives in Ontario, the premier refused to speculate.

"All I'm going to say is it's unfair," he said. "We're not asking that any other province have its seat numbers reduced. We're just saying that we should be recognized in the same way that Alberta and B.C. are being recognized."

Van Loan said Tuesday that McGuinty is bent on fighting a bill that would actually improve Ontario's representation in the House of Commons, noting Ontario would get only four more seats in the Commons under the current formula.

"For some reason the premier of Ontario has decided to make his great crusade fighting a bill that treats Ontario better than the existing law," he said.

"McGuinty apparently opposed Ontario doing better, because the choice is not our bill or some hypothetical unreality. The choice is our bill or the existing formula – under which Ontario is badly shortchanged."

McGuinty said he was confident Ontario voters would understand that the province is getting the short end of the stick from the federal Tories.

"What we're talking about is an issue of fundamental fairness that affects all Ontarians," he said

AoD
 
Right, and Van Loan belongs to a party whose origins emanate from Western Canadian interests, and that same party has recently discovered the electoral delights of offering candy to the narrow-visioned nationalists of Quebec.

What an asshole.
 
"Dalton McGuinty seems to be abandoning the traditional role of an Ontario premier, which would see Ontario's interests protected while at the same time advancing the strength of Confederation," Van Loan said in an interview.

What a dick. So is Ontario's role to roll over and play dead in such a partisan move? Traditionally, in consitutional matters, Ontario's role was a middle-of-the-road honest broker - like Bill Davis in 1982.
 
Don't you understand Ontario's role. In matters of transfer payments all the taxation from all industries count in determining our share, but certain key industries don't count in other provinces. In matters of seats in the house we shall have under representation while other provinces have over representation. Equality would be that taxation on finance and manufacturing in Ontario don't get included in the calculation of transfer payments if oil doesn't count elsewhere. Equality would be that every riding has close to the same population. Basically in the Harper and Martin government Ontario's role in the federation is bent over.
 
McGuinty called small for bid to get better Commons seat deal

KAREN HOWLETT

November 21, 2007

TORONTO -- The Harper Government accused Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty yesterday of being "the small man of Confederation" after he appealed to his federal colleagues for help fighting proposed legislation that would increase the number of seats in the House of Commons.

Mr. McGuinty spoke privately yesterday to federal Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion as part of a bid to build grassroots support for his campaign for what he sees as a fairer deal from Ottawa on legislation that he says shortchanges the province. He has also asked Ontario MPs of all political stripes to spread the word that the legislation is unfair.

"What we're talking about is an issue of fundamental fairness for all Ontarians," Mr. McGuinty told reporters yesterday. "There is no grey here. It's black and white."

The fight for fairness in the Commons is a sequel to an earlier campaign, when Mr. McGuinty succeeded in having Ontario win a bigger share of the federal pie for a variety of social programs.

Mr. McGuinty has complained that the legislation to change the formula for seat distribution in the Commons would leave Ontario the most underrepresented province in Canada. His criticisms have sparked a new round of bickering with Ottawa, which took a nasty turn yesterday with federal Conservative House Leader Peter Van Loan accusing the Premier of not living up to the province's traditional role as nation builder.

"He seems to prefer to become the small man of Confederation, focusing only on taking partisan shots while not concerned about the strength of Canada as a whole," Mr. Van Loan told The Canadian Press.

Mr. Dion immediately condemned the remarks as inappropriate and called on Mr. Van Loan to apologize.

"Instead of engaging in a meaningful debate on the issue, the Conservatives sink right down into mud-slinging and name-calling, which shows the weakness of their arguments," Mr. Dion said in a statement.

Mr. Dion is sympathetic to Mr. McGuinty's argument that the legislation would give every province, with the notable exception of Ontario, enough ridings to match the size of their population. The legislation is aimed at adding 22 seats to the Commons, all of them in fast-growing Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia.

The number of seats Ontario is allotted in the Commons might seem every bit as arcane as how the federal government divvies up its riches with the provinces. But in the earlier fight, Mr. McGuinty succeeded in getting the message out - with the help of his colleagues in Ottawa - that Ontario was not receiving its fair share in federal transfer payments for health and postsecondary education.

Mr. McGuinty told reporters he wants to do the same this time around. In his earlier campaign, he got the attention of his federal colleagues after MPs began hearing complaints from their constituents that Ottawa was not giving Ontario its fair share of the transfer payments.

"It came to a point where they couldn't go into Tim Hortons, they couldn't go to the dry cleaners, they couldn't go into the local convenience store without somebody button-holing them ... If that's how far we need to go this time around, then we'll do that."
 

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