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Thread: GO Transit Service thread (including extensions)

  1. #2866

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    Quote Originally Posted by canarob View Post
    Some stats from the metrolinx board meeting (http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf...date_FINAL.pdf)

    At the end of November 2011:

    -Rail average weekday ridership grew by nearly 6%.
    -Bus average weekday ridership increased by over
    6%.
    -Significant increase of nearly 18% for the bus
    average weekend ridership.


    Given the huge weekend growth numbers, I hope this augurs well for non-Lakeshore weekend train service.
    Does that mean GO will increase parking space by 6%?


  2. #2867
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Markham
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    951

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    It looks like the upcoming board changes are just more bus runs: http://www.newswire.ca/en/organization/13284

    I can't say I'm not disappointed that rumours of more Stouffville trains aren't weren't true.

  3. #2868
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Markham
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    951

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    Here are the 2011 GO ridership numbers (I emailed Metrolinx). Unfortunately, they were unable to include the associated bus service with each line (it's all in the regional bus number), so I was unable to do year-over-year comparisons.


    Barrie 3,232,600
    Stouffville 3,182,900
    Richmond Hill 2,428,900
    Georgetown 3,952,100
    Milton 6,144,300
    Lakeshore East 12,210,700
    Lakeshore West 15,219,200

    GO Regional Bus 14,865,700
    Last edited by CDL.TO; 2012-Mar-19 at 12:57. Reason: Added commas to make numbers more readable

  4. #2869

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    Quote Originally Posted by canarob View Post
    I can't say I'm not disappointed that rumours of more Stouffville trains aren't weren't true.
    Quadruple negative?

  5. #2870
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    951

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDL.TO View Post
    Quadruple negative?
    Oh man, don't drink and post kids!

  6. #2871
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ottawa (formerly Downtown Toronto)
    Posts
    5,198

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOareaFan View Post
    Agree.
    Mods, feel free to move this whole thing then, but I don't think that a subway fantasy thread covers it very well either. Maybe a GO fantasy thread? I just put it in the thread that was closest existing thread to the topic at hand.

  7. #2872

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    Quote Originally Posted by gweed123 View Post
    Mods, feel free to move this whole thing then, but I don't think that a subway fantasy thread covers it very well either. Maybe a GO fantasy thread? I just put it in the thread that was closest existing thread to the topic at hand.
    It's been moved to a slightly re-worded Subway/Transit maps thread.

  8. #2873

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    Discussion/debate on the merits (or lack of) of the ARL have been moved to the Georgetown/ARL thread here:

    http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthr...356#post629356

  9. #2874

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    Useful info, thanks.

    Would vegeta or anybody like to guess what you'd have to pay CP to get them to sell the North Toronto Subdivision?

  10. Default

    Me thinks its time for an updated summery of the GO corridors and recent transactions

    Lakeshore West
    -total length(revenue service); 40.3 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.2, Oakville 36.1, Hamilton 3.0
    -ownership; 23.6 GO(59%), 13.7 CN, 3.0 CP
    -purchases;
    2000 USRC mile 0.0 to 1.2
    2010 Oakville mile 1.2 to 8.1 = 6.9 miles = 72$ million
    Mar 2012 Oakville mile 8.1 to 23.6 = 15.5 miles(+14.2 miles of the Bala sub) = 310.5$ million

    Niagara(seasonal only)
    -total length(revenue service); 82.4 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.2, Oakville 38.1, Grimsby 43.1
    -ownership; 23.6 GO, 58.8 CN

    Lakeshore East
    -total length(revenue service); 31.5 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.4, Kingston 18.4, GO 11.7
    -ownership; 31.5 GO(100%), except for 1.0 CN to Pickering south?
    -purchases;
    Mar 2011 Kingston 314.0 to 332.4 = 18.4 miles = 299$ million

    Milton
    -total length(revenue service); 31.5 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.5, Galt 30.0
    -ownership; 4.6 GO(15%), 26.9 CP
    -purchases;
    2000 USRC mile 0.0 to 1.5
    unknown date Galt mile 1.5 to 4.6

    Kitchener
    -total length(revenue service); 62.7 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.6, Weston 15.4, Halton 13.0, Geulph 32.7
    -ownership; 17.0 GO(27%), 13.0 CN, 32.7 GEXR (leased from CN)
    -purchases;
    2000 USRC mile 0.0 to 1.6
    Apr 2009 Weston mile 1.6 to 17.0 = 15.4 miles = 160$ million

    Barrie
    -total length(revenue service); 63.0 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.6, Weston 1.4, Newmarket 60.0
    -ownership; 63.0 GO(100%)
    -purchases;
    unknown date Newmarket mile 15.5 to 62.8
    Dec 2009 Newmarket mile 3.0 to 15.5 = 12.5 miles = 68$ million

    Richmond Hill
    -total length(revenue service); 21.0 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.9, Bala 19.1
    -ownership; 16.1 GO(77%), 4.9 CN
    -purchases;
    Mar 2012 Bala mile 1.9 to 16.1 = 14.2 miles(+15.5 miles of the Oakville sub) = 310.5$ million

    Stouffville
    -total length(revenue service); 30.7 miles
    -subdivisions; USRC 1.4, Kingston 6.8, Uxbridge 22.3, yard track 0.2
    -ownership; 30.7 GO(100%)
    -purchases;
    unknown date Uxbridge mile 38.7 to 61.0 = 22.3 (section GO operates on, track past mile 38.7 is also owned by GO but leased to the York-Durhan heritage railway)

    System totals
    figures do not include duplicate miles for the Stouffville and Lakeshore East (8.2 miles) or the Kitchener & Barrie (3.0 miles) or the Lakeshore West and Niagara (37.3 miles)

    Total length;
    year round revenue service - 270.5 miles,
    with seasonal Niagara service - 315.6 miles

    Ownership breakdown;
    270.5 miles = 175.3 GO(65%), 32.7 GEXR(12%), 32.6 CN(12%), 29.9 CP(11%)
    including Niagara;
    315.6 miles = 175.3 GO(56%), 77.8 CN(27%), 32.7 GEXR(10%), 29.9 CP(9%)

    Historical analysis of track ownership
    Ownership as of 1998;
    213.6 miles = 11.7 GO(5%), 167.4 CN(78%), 34.5 CP(16%)

    Ownership as of Oct 2007;
    213.6 miles = 69.2 GO(32%), 114.5 CN(54%), 29.9 CP(14%)

    Ownership of that same territory today;
    213.6 miles = 151.7 GO(71%), 32.0 CN(15%), 29.9 CP(14%)

    Cost of those purchases; 909.5$ million for 82.9 miles of mainline corridor
    = 11 million per mile

    Ownership of additional territory since Oct 2007;
    102.0 miles = 45.7 CN(45%), 32.7 GERX(32%), 23.6 GO(23%)

    Breakdown of line extensions since Dec 2007; 102.0 miles
    -to Barrie Dec 2007 21.3 miles (GO)
    -to Lincolnville Jan 2008; 2.1 miles(GO)
    -to Niagara Jun 2009; 45.1 miles(CN)
    -to Kitchener Dec 2011; 32.7 miles(GEXR) 0.6 (CN)
    -to Allandale Jan 2012; 0.2 miles(GO)

    Addition track purchases;
    2010 CP Belleville sub (Don Branch) mile 209.4 to 206.4 = 3.0 miles

    In other news, weekend Barrie and Niagara service starts on June 23rd & 22nd respectively.
    Last edited by vegeta_skyline; 2012-Apr-27 at 20:39.

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k10ery View Post
    Useful info, thanks.

    Would vegeta or anybody like to guess what you'd have to pay CP to get them to sell the North Toronto Subdivision?
    np. North Toronto sub? Unfortunately that's one that probably won't be going for sale any time soon since its CP's east-west mainline. It's going to be hard enough to get regular service on that line, nevermind owing it

  12. #2877

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    Thanks for the great summary, VS. Now that GO owns most of its corridors outright, it's time to start converting them to accommodate proper regional rail. Stouffville would be the easiest, since it's relatively short, has very little on-line freight traffic, and passes through heavily populated areas. Lakeshore, at least from Oakville to Oshawa, could also be a good candidate. Other routes will be more complex, either because of ownership issues or because they'd need a higher level of express service in addition to standard regional rail given their length. As an aside, CN has gotten quite the cash infusion from all these purchases.

    As for the North Toronto Sub, I'd say the only real scenario would be to buy land from CP and possibly from neighbouring landowners to build a dedicated second pair of tracks. It would be a more complex project than most, but worth it in the end. Some areas would be tight, but most of the corridor would be able to fit the tracks without the need for much demolition. An alternative would be to re-route at least some of CP's traffic onto a different route, likely the CN freight bypass. Back in the day when they were talking about merging their eastern operations, there was some talk of consolidating all freight traffic onto the Halton/York subs and Mac Yard. The North Toronto sub would have been abandoned, presumably to transit service. That would have been a real benefit, but not worth the drawbacks of such a merger given the success that CN has since experienced.

  13. #2878
    Join Date
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    Markham
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    Quote Originally Posted by unimaginative2 View Post
    Stouffville would be the easiest, since it's relatively short, has very little on-line freight traffic, and passes through heavily populated areas.
    Seeing as how the Markham arena next to Unionville GO seems to be more and more of a done deal http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthr...BBB-Architects), I wonder what coordination will occur with GO? I know that signal work and bridge replacement is currently under way along the Stouffville line, so it's not like GO is sitting on its hands, but at the same time my biggest fear (related to transit, anyway!) is that the arena opens in 2014 and service won't have been increased enough to handle passengers on event nights. At minimum, extra trains to events and several return trains would be needed. A tunnel or bridge would also be needed to connect the GO station to the west side of the tracks near where the arena will sit.

  14. #2879

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    I'm of the mind that GO's wasting its time installing any system other than ERTMS. It's rapidly becoming the international standard, and anything else--particularly something cobbled together or homemade--is going to be less effective and incompatible with off-the-shelf equipment. That's especially true now that the Europeans have worked out most of the bugs for us.

  15. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unimaginative2 View Post
    I'm of the mind that GO's wasting its time installing any system other than ERTMS. It's rapidly becoming the international standard, and anything else--particularly something cobbled together or homemade--is going to be less effective and incompatible with off-the-shelf equipment. That's especially true now that the Europeans have worked out most of the bugs for us.
    What is GO installing in the Union/Stouffville/Barrie corridors?

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