Spadina Subway Extension

[Brandon716]

I completely agree Hipster Duck, though I daresay that Toronto's not that much further ahead in its planning than New York. Philadelphia is even sadder. They've got such an amazing infrastructure that they've inherited--almost European level--yet it's been completely squandered. They're even regressing to the point of abandoning through-running of their suburban lines.

New Yorkers just can't imagine the concept of regional rail and so they don't even comprehend the weaknesses of the LIRR. Even on the Jamaica to Penn stretch, which should operate as a shuttle (and did in the early 20th century), there are 45 minute gaps in service in the middle of the day, often followed by three trains within ten minutes. It's deliberately scheduled to run like the Spadina streetcar! I'm always amazed when talk of a super-express subway along the Long Island Expressway periodically pops up. It's quite obvious that the super-express subway is already there, in the form of the LIRR line. It just awaits fare integration and regular headways. Whenever New York transit is compared unfavourably to anybody else, they just fall back on the old "New York is the greatest city in the world and is therefore completely unique." I remember reading a transit planner boast that the Long Island Rail Road offers the world's most perfect transit system: "You don't even need a car, other than to get to the train station!" It sounds like I'm knocking New York but I love the city and it's got an amazing transit system. If you live in the city, it kicks the ass of the TTC. Dank as the stations may be, I can get from 125th street to 59th street in 10 minutes flat and the trains run all night. If you're in the outer boroughs or, god forbid, outside NYC, your transit situation is much worse. In Nassau County, for example, the bus service is worse than Houston.

I think one of the big advantages in Western North American cities is that their transit agencies' cultures aren't as ossified and self-satisfied as those in the East. The Not-Invented-Here syndrome isn't nearly as strong and they're much more willing to try new models.

I'm incredibly excited about Denver. If it works out, it will be the first example of real regional rail in North America. I do fear that it will get screwed up, though. At the first sign of budget cuts, they'll eliminated "unnecessary" midday services to "focus on their core market" of commuters. Well, I hope not.

Denver sounds better on paper I think than it sounds in real life. The built urban environment in Denver is so tiny its hard to see it being used, I could see them building this massive LRT network with commuter service and it going to waste and it'll essentially become a smaller version of Philadelphia. Philly is a great example of what could be a great thing, but simply isn't. Then again, Philly is the most racially charged city in the northeast, so its hard to get some people to live in many areas of the city. And of course NYC is notorious for horrible suburban bus service.

There simply is no perfect. But of course those NYC express trains really do a great job.

[smallspy]

The delay has drop from 6 seconds to 3 seconds and still 3 seconds too long.

So, when are they going to fix the delay on the T1s then? Should they bother with the H6s?

The average delay - insofar as it can be called a delay - is no worse than the delay in opening the T1 doors with some crews. It involves attentiveness, and if the crew isn't at attention there will be a short pause before the doors open. Regardless of the equipment used.

For the record I have taken two TRs in the past two days, and the longest delay in opening the doors at any station was about a second and a half.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

[unimaginative2]

Denver sounds better on paper I think than it sounds in real life. The built urban environment in Denver is so tiny its hard to see it being used, I could see them building this massive LRT network with commuter service and it going to waste and it'll essentially become a smaller version of Philadelphia. Philly is a great example of what could be a great thing, but simply isn't. Then again, Philly is the most racially charged city in the northeast, so its hard to get some people to live in many areas of the city. And of course NYC is notorious for horrible suburban bus service.

That's exactly my fear. The US has a habit of building great infrastructure and then gradually starving it of the operating funds it needs to be used properly. Again, let's hope nobody decides all those mid-day frequencies are "unnecessary" because the trains aren't full.

[MisterF]

I was over in Germany last May, and I stayed at a relative's place in one of the middle ring suburbs of Berlin, so the S-Bahn was the only rapid transit that went out that far (U-Bahn only goes into the inner ring suburbs). I guess a fair comparison would be Thornhill or something like that.

Having used the GO train from Burlington pretty frequently, I was blown away by how much better the S-Bahn is. The vehicle comfort level is about the same, as are the bare-bones nature of many of the stations. It was the frequency and the connectivity that really got me. No schedule needed, just show up and a train will be along in at most 10 minutes. Takes you right to the central station (Hauptbahnhof), where you can transfer to nearly every other S-Bahn line, as well as a couple U-Bahn lines (as well as inter-city rail). The overall experience was more like taking the subway here than taking the GO train, even though it was the same function that GO serves here.

The thing is, having this type of system, in terms of dollars per km, wouldn't really be that expensive, especially when compared with other rail projects. And it can be phased pretty well. Electrify everything inside of the City of Toronto, or just beyond (Long Branch, Cooksville, Bramlea, Downsview Park, Oriole, Agincourt, Pickering) in the first phases, so that you're running high frequency trains inside of Toronto. The rest of the lines would still have the current GO service, with enhanced GO REX service being gradually pushed further and further out.

This is just what needs to happen in the GTA. Your observations are exactly what I noticed about Rome...a city not exactly known for innovative transit, but that aspect of their system impressed me. If GO service resembled the S-Bahn, complete with fare integration, nobody in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, or Mississauga would be demanding subway extensions. Subway expansion could be focused on the central city without triggering the downtown-vs-suburbs battles that are so incessant now. This is also why we need to look beyond North America for examples to use, since as the last few posts show, a truly integrated regional rapid transit system simply doesn't exist here. I'm encouraged by the Metrolinx plan, but it's happening too slowly.

[gweed123]

This is just what needs to happen in the GTA. Your observations are exactly what I noticed about Rome...a city not exactly known for innovative transit, but that aspect of their system impressed me. If GO service resembled the S-Bahn, complete with fare integration, nobody in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, or Mississauga would be demanding subway extensions. Subway expansion could be focused on the central city without triggering the downtown-vs-suburbs battles that are so incessant now. This is also why we need to look beyond North America for examples to use, since as the last few posts show, a truly integrated regional rapid transit system simply doesn't exist here. I'm encouraged by the Metrolinx plan, but it's happening too slowly.

Exactly. See the GO transit expansion thread, I just posted a map detailing exactly what I think GO expansion should look like.

[hawc]

Wait, they had a public naming competition for the name of the tunnel boring maching and the best they could come up with was 'Holey"

Wow. That's why you never involve the public in anything.

[M II A II R II K]

They should have called them both Yorky and Dorky since the train line goes to York Region and the process of bothering to name a tunnel machine is nerdy to say the least.

[gweed123]

They should have called them both Yorky and Dorky since the train line goes to York Region and the process of bothering to name a tunnel machine is nerdy to say the least.

It is pretty dorky, I agree. I think they should have gone with Mario & Luigi. They're both plumbers, and are pros at dealing with tubes.

[hawc]

I'd call them Ike and Mike.

[Johnny Au]

It is pretty dorky, I agree. I think they should have gone with Mario & Luigi. They're both plumbers, and are pros at dealing with tubes.

The TTC was very close to naming the tunnel boring machine after Diglett! Yes, Diglett is a Pokemon.

[Inkarnate]

The TTC was very close to naming the tunnel boring machine after Diglett! Yes, Diglett is a Pokemon.

I am now very disappointed this didn't happen...

[nfitz]

I am now very disappointed this didn't happen...

@CrosstownTO has been twittering that the naming contest for the 4 TBMs for the Eglinton line is coming soon. So not all is lost!

[EnviroTO]

Looking back, we see door trouble. Today, again it is door trouble.

I notice on some buses that really aren't that old most of the bus is holding up well, but the doors have paint bubbling and coming off and possibly corroding.

[drum118]

So, when are they going to fix the delay on the T1s then? Should they bother with the H6s?

The average delay - insofar as it can be called a delay - is no worse than the delay in opening the T1 doors with some crews. It involves attentiveness, and if the crew isn't at attention there will be a short pause before the doors open. Regardless of the equipment used.

For the record I have taken two TRs in the past two days, and the longest delay in opening the doors at any station was about a second and a half.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Before Webster was shown the door, he and staff were not happy with the delays and wanted the zero time like the current fleet. He said it would have an impact on the whole operation fleet.

If you add all the extra runtime delays, the runs become longer and has an impact on scheduling/spacing. Even with only a few of the new TR on the line, the current fleet starts to backup and held at stations longer.

Over the last 5 years after starting to look closely at operation, ran into a hand full cases where there was a delay in opening the doors. Some were a few seconds, but a few over a minute where the guard was changing from side to side.

Any TR I have been on, 3 seconds is the fastest to the point 5411 is down to 3 from 6.

With the crews now operating on the end car of the current fleet, have watch them and seen no delays at all by them. Hard to watch them on the TR.

[unimaginative2]

I agree that this is a very important issue. One of the many strengths of the TTC's subway system is its high speed relative to its stop spacing, compared with peer systems. I can imagine that this door delay is diminishing some of that advantage.