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Thread: Corus Quay (East Bayfront Dockside, TEDCO, 7s, D+S)

  1. Default

    I think the examples prove the point. All except the one MetroMan shows (reaching out to the water) are much taller buildings or the Sydney Opera House. One thing more... the WT precinct plan does not allow the buildings to be near the water and are not allowed to reach over the public boardwalk spaces.

    The other notion is true too. The Corus (Chorus?) building is a media office headquarters, not a Opera House or other theatre/public building. I think the pciture from London on the Thames, above, is the Greater London Assembly -- another government building.

    Perhaps if we want a vibrant mix of uses, we should welcome the Corus project and save other spots on the waterfront for an OCAD or government building. There is a hell of a lot of waterfront in Toronto, why hasn't the government or WT invested in such a public building, like a Toronto museum, instead of attack the Corus building?


  2. #662

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    Since when does height have anything to do with architectual merit? (answer: never).

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    ^ Exactly...taller buildings are only automatically better when you're a skyscraper geek. You could chop a few floors off the two buildings I posted pics of and they'd still be spectacular. Corus, while not necessarily a snoozefest, is remarkably unremarkable...just the thing to kickstart the waterfront!

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fair Comment View Post

    1. the WT precinct plan does not allow the buildings to be near the water and are not allowed to reach over the public boardwalk spaces.

    2. The other notion is true too. The Corus (Chorus?) building is a media office headquarters, not a Opera House or other theatre/public building. I think the pciture from London on the Thames, above, is the Greater London Assembly -- another government building.

    3. Perhaps if we want a vibrant mix of uses, we should welcome the Corus project and save other spots on the waterfront for an OCAD or government building.
    1. Boring. This should be changed. I agree its an obstacle but it is one which could and should be challenged.

    2. So why can't a media headquarters have great architecture as well? It may not require something as dramatic as Sidney but I was simply illustrating a point with that building. The point is that a single building can really complete a city (Empire State = NY, CN Tower = Toronto, Sidney Opera House = Sidney, etc.) and stand out in people's minds as representative of it. I don't believe that use should dictate architecture - everything has the right to proper aesthetics.

    3. So a mix of bland and mediocre with crazy, eye-popping Euro-style architecture...Hmmmm. My vote is still for the Stern/Book thing - its fabulous!

  5. Default

    Like most of the others on this board I have to agree that height doesn't matter. There are many fantastic examples of new proposals for waterfronts all over the world that push the limits of creativity. My fav is this


  6. #666

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    Diamond may be a good architect, but he's fallen from grace, much like the Eb Zeidlers of the world. The design panel was attacking what Interchange 42 termed "the cheapening" - I don't quite get the defense of a cheap out of a serviceable building to something really dull?

    London City Hall is 8 floors tall. Not a skyscraper by any means, and not any taller than the Pier 27 Plan.

    Torontoians should demand better - here, and with the nice-looking Phase I of Pier 27, but the project with the lousy site plan. At least here there's a design panel that is looking out for us, and a waterfront agency with a mandate to improve the public realm at the waterfront. What's wrong with that?

  7. #667
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    Jayomatic, why not add the name and architect of the building you like so much?

    National Assembly of Wales, Cardiff, (Richard) Rogers Stirk Harbour + Partners

  8. #668

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    Instead of further dismembering Diamond on this thread, let me see if I can propose something constructive.

    Jack Diamond is well versed in using wood in his work. In fact, I believe the Four Seasons Centre won a prestigious design award for interior use of wood.

    An exterior clad in wood would work well with West8's wooden decks at the end of each Quay and fit in with the entire theme of our waterfront. I think Jack Diamond could pull it off well. Just no black brick and blank walls please.

  9. Default

    I love the London City Hall, especially the interior staircase. I even like the office buildings beside it as well.

  10. #670

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fair Comment View Post
    The other notion is true too. The Corus (Chorus?) building is a media office headquarters, not a Opera House or other theatre/public building. I think the pciture from London on the Thames, above, is the Greater London Assembly -- another government building.
    Yet he designed an Opera House that looks like it could be an institutional building. Who cares if it's a media office headquarters? That shouldn't mean creativity should be shunned.

    I don't see what's wrong with the criticism of this Diamond project.

  11. Default Out of the loop

    As someone who's been out of the loop for some time, I had to read through oodles of this thread to figure out where this project stood. I find it odd that a city-financed private sector project could have such a pained birthing process. Here we have one arm of the city financing the damn thing, and another arm doing their best to smash some architectural interest into it, with the mayor and others fighting over it. As a confirmed bureaucrat, all I can think about is the meetings, meetings, meetings that must go into all of this and the enormous hidden costs.

    I think it is always cheap and easy to troll the net and find cool buildings on various city's waterfronts, which distort the reality of most waterfront vistas, which are decidedly mixed. Nonetheless, I think the disparaging comments of the most recent version of this building are more or less on the mark - it is dull as dishwater. The prominence of the site to me is in question, but this building does set the stage as it were for the eastern waterfront, and since the city is paying the bill for the damn thing, they should be able to get something that they want for their dime.

    If I were Miller, I'd have an announcement to say that the project is gone unless a complete redesign is announced.

    Of course, that would only lead to more meetings.

  12. Default

    From the Globe:

    DEVELOPMENT: 'HUGE AMOUNT OF DISAPPOINTMENT' OVER $160-MILLION PROJECT

    Waterfront plan faces fresh controversy
    Design panel blasts latest plans for building at foot of Jarvis, which omit vaunted egg-shaped auditorium
    JOHN LORINC

    Special to The Globe and Mail

    December 10, 2007

    A blue-chip design panel has criticized the latest architectural plans for the first major development planned for the Toronto waterfront, a $160-million office building now under construction at the foot of Jarvis Street.

    "There's a huge amount of disappointment," said architect Bruce Kuwabara, chair of the 13-member design review panel, during a tense and at times farcical session of the Waterfront Toronto board.

    "The things that were of interest [in designs reviewed last June] are gone and we can't support the project at that level."

    The building is being developed by the Toronto Economic Development Corporation, a city agency, and will house 1,100 employees of Corus Entertainment, the media conglomerate. The funding comes from city loans and a $12.5-million contribution from Waterfront Toronto.

    The redevelopment agency has said it wants the project, which was announced earlier this year, to meet high standards of design and environmental performance, as well as enhance the public realm in what will become the East Bayfront precinct.

    Based on the Friday session, however, the Corus building could be facing months of controversy.

    On a motion by Mayor David Miller, the waterfront board voted to withhold $9-million of its contribution unless the economic development corporation and its architects work closely with Mr. Kuwabara's design panel to solve several major architectural flaws.

    The panel had offered a conditional thumb's up last June. But in his presentation on Friday, Mr. Kuwabara said the latest plans, submitted in November, were wanting in six critical areas.

    The most grievous omission, he said, was the apparent loss of a large egg-shaped auditorium, to be situated in an open-concept atrium separating the two wings of an otherwise ordinary-looking glass office building. It appears prominently in drawings reviewed by the design panel last June, but disappears in subsequent renderings.

    "The egg captured people's imaginations," Mr. Kuwabara said, referring to its resemblance to the pod-like lecture halls in the atrium of the Sir Norman Foster-designed Leslie L. Dan Pharmacy Building at the University of Toronto. "It was really magic."

    But in one of the session's stranger exchanges, Toronto Economic Development Corporation chief executive Jeff Steiner denied the egg-shaped auditorium was ever an established feature of the project. "We never said it was definitely going to be an egg," he said. Mr. Steiner insisted the egg was merely a "conceptual" option and then characterized the review panel's recommendations as lacking "clarity".

    Waterfront Toronto official Chris Glaisek, vice-president of planning and design, recalls the earlier plans quite differently. The egg "was presented as though it was in the design," he said. "It was not ambiguous."

    After the meeting broke up, Ross McGregor, another Waterfront director, accused Mr. Steiner of "bait and switch" tactics.

    Mr. Steiner, however, insisted that the mysteriously missing design details could be reintroduced as the project proceeds. "We'll make some improvements."
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    Well, since Mr. Steiner is all about "conceptual notion", let him eat on the reality that site plan approval for this project is also a "conceptual notion" and could all of a sudden disappear without notice.

    AoD

  13. #673

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    What's up with these rogue agencies? Toronto Port Authority, TEDCO... they need to be whipped into submission. They should be working WITH the city, not against it.

  14. #674

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    On a slightly tangential note while the architectural references people are posting are entirely appropriate given the project space in question and the level of government support, I thought I would comment about what kind of built form backstops interesting and lively waterfront districts. The institutional ego-texture we are considering looks good on postcards and in design glossies (and me likey too) but the kinds of places were people enjoy the waterfront are usually backstopped by walls of private sector lots where developers have over the years crowded in a willy-nilly fashion up as far forward as the law allows. The architecturally significant seems to occupy no advantage over the simple and mundane. So in some ways I question the entire attempt to place this commercial space on the waterfront at great public expense when it's regenerative (or generative as the case may be) influence is suspect.

  15. #675

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    Fair Comment points out that the precinct plan does not allow buildings such as Corus to be near the water or to reach over the public boardwalk spaces.

    This makes review board member Siamak Hariri's comment about the design, previously quoted on this thread, "I wish that it went much further, that it cantilevered on the water" sound somewhat bizarre.

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