Our houses are small

So last weekend was the forum meet, and two of the guys I toured around before the official meet where from Phoenix. One of them works in real estate and had been looking at our New Homes and Condos Magazines, etc. Anyway he could not believe how small our new housing is here.

It was really funny. He could not believe people would actually live in a house that is only 1500 or 1700 sq feet, or that people would live in a condo that is only 800 sq feet.

He was telling me that in Phoenix, the average empty nesters demand at min a 2,000-3,000 sq foot house. And condos have to be atleast 1500 sq feet in most areas of Phoenix, or you will have problems selling them.


Ontop of that you have to add in the gatehouse. Most subdivisions including the ones they live in, are gatehouse protected(I think gated subdivisions is just gross).

Anyway it was interesting to see the difference between cities.

He could not believe how many condos we have here. That would not really fly in Phoenix he said, where people value space and big spaces, instead of small condos.

But then Phoenix is the city people move to, to get away from high density city life from places like NYC, Chicago, Toronto, etc. They move there to not be like us

We are so much more sustainable then many places though.

Do they have basements in Phoenix though? Obviously doesn't matter with condo's but with homes the basement doesn't contribute to sq. footage.

That's OK Mike. I am quite willing to predict that within about 20 years Phoenix will be a-growing no longer, and those 2,400 sq ft houses will be on the market for about a dollar.

I live alone in a 1,000 sq.ft. house, which has an unfinished basement of about 500 sq.ft. It is fine for one person, just as it was fine when there were two of us.

If I moved to a condo I don't think I could get by with less than 1,500 sq.ft. I'd miss the garden for one thing - it acts as a big extra room in the summer. I sit out there for breakfast in the morning, surrounded by the heady fragrance of lily of the valley, daphne, and lilac, and take dinner there in the evening. I'm loth to give this up for a postage stamp sized balcony with a few potted plants.

So, an empty nester couple in Phoenix, living in a 3,000 sq.ft. house, are really no better off in terms of space. In fact, they're just the same as Torontonians like me.

Their houses are BIG. They probably also have an SUV or two and have to drive a couple of miles to get a pint of milk. And you wonder why the is a pending energy crisis?

Not to mention, they're putting the growth right in the middle of a desert. Wonder why they are looking greedily to Canada for potential water resources?

AoD

I never thought of the basement thing. So really our houses are not smaller, since houses in Phoenix don't really have basements.

Still funny how different things are. I am glad we did not get into the gated subdivision thing. Or the driving to access a bus route(he was saying to access a bus route near his house, he would have to be driven 3KM to the closest bus stop).

miketoronto:

Do they have bigger lots in Phoenix? When you're a property owner you have a mental image of your "homestead" that doesn't just include the house but the land you own, including garden, as well.

I can see how, if people in Phoenix have bigger lots, they might see our "homes" as smaller.

I did a Google thing and actually, from a quick scan of a city I don't know, the suburban houses seem actually to be quite close together. I can't judge their size, however.

Phoenix is one of the cities in the States that is most susceptible to energy or water dislocations. As Kunstler would point out, when gas is over $100 a barrel and electricity costs are even higher, and a recession sets in, people are likely to find their McMansions in the desert on the periphery are too expensive to maintain or to get to and from, which could be inconvenient especially when water has been rationed to certain hours in the day. If they've borrowed extensively on the former market value of their home for their heavy SUV and flat screen TV they could be in for some trouble.

^But that's when the U.S. will start its space program-like effort to develop fuel cells and infrastructure. The burbs have too much political clout to be turned into fossils.

How interesting. Are there large homes in downtown Phoenix as well, or would that be more of a commercial area?

I wonder how much of that demand for large homes is motivated by "keeping up with the Joneses". Perhaps I'm brainwashed by the many Torontonians who've had no choice but to adapt to our smaller residences due to cost and/or supply, but I really can't imagine what just 2 people would do with 2,000-3,000 square feet of space.

Places like Richmond Hill, Unionville, Oakville, Caldeon, Aurora, Mississauga, Thornhill, Burlington, Woodbridge, etc. all have countless gigantic new homes.

shmoopie:

A bedroom, a second bedroom, a guest bedroom, a small office space, a kitchen, a living room, a dining room. That's your 2,000 square feet gone in an instant.

"Places like Richmond Hill, Unionville, Oakville, Caldeon, Aurora, Mississauga, Thornhill, Burlington, Woodbridge, etc. all have countless gigantic new homes."

Lots of pokey little detached houses that are under 2000 sq.ft. are going up in places like Oakville and Markham (really, almost everywhere but Vaughan), while many of the large houses consume the entire lot so that there is no yard to speak of.

A bedroom, a second bedroom, a guest bedroom, a small office space, a kitchen, a living room, a dining room. That's your 2,000 square feet gone in an instant.

Click to expand...

I see your point, however, that's excessive to me for only 2 people. Assume the following room dimensions:

Master Bedroom: 300 sq. ft. (20 x 15)
Second Bedroom: 225 sq. ft. (15 x 15)
Guest Room: 225 sq. ft. (15 x 15)
Small Office: 150 sq. ft. (15 x 10)
Kitchen: 300 sq. ft. (20 x 15)
Living Room: 300 sq. ft. (20 x 15)
Dining Room: 250 sq. ft. (20 x 12.5)

This is 1,750 sq. ft, not counting bathrooms, storage spaces, and closets, which would take you to the 2,000 - 3,000 range and is typical. But I don't know, it just seems like a lot to me. Do 2 people really need a 4 bedroom house with a formal dining room for 8?