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Union Pearson Express
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Thread: GO Georgetown South Corridor/ Union Pearson Express (Metrolinx, U/C)

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    Quote Originally Posted by p5connex View Post
    -TOareafan

    I think there is a lot of truth in this comment, but it is not necessarily only our planning processes that are a fucked up, but everything from planning to politics to finances combined. First, we do not have any political will to do anything great or which may make waves. Why? cause you risk losing your seat. Second, if there is political will, it comes in the form of half-assed ill conceived plans like this one.
    To me, and I suspect most of the populace, it matters not whether it is planning policies or political cowardice or lack of finances......it all manifests itself in nothing of consequence ever happening. The region is full of projects that get announced then, either, nothing happens or they move at a snails pace then, often, get re-announced....how many waterfront announcements? how many Downsview Park announcements? How many transit "plan" announcements? It leads to a lack of trust/faith in our politicians/procedures.

    I remember when Toronto bid on the 2008 Olympics.....the premier, the prime minister and the Mayor gathered for a press conference telling us (and the world) that they were joinly, and co-operatively, funding 3 large infrastructure projects that would be ready for the Olympics and would go ahead whether we won the bid or not (clearly, for them to say that they were aware of the lack of credibility infrastructure announcements in Canada have)......so, since those games we did not win have passed, where are those projects? I only, honestly, remember two of them. The additional subway platform at Union is, I guess, going ahead but not sure how progressed it is and it certainly wasn't ready for the 2008 games and all that remains of the Front Street extension is a graffiti covered billboard telling us that it is happening. So, since that guaranteed to go ahead project was cancelled, what happened to the money that they "put in the bank" that day for that project?

    I am sure there are examples of this across the country but I can't imagine it is worse than it is in southern Ontario/GTA.


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    I just don't see why they cant appease the Weston Road folks by running both Express and full stops trains? Why would you squander any potential ridership that already exists that will help pay off the investment sooner?

    I dont know what the potential numbers are... but if we are aiming to improve transit overall, why not let this be an airport express and a regional line? Is line capacity a problem or something?
    Last edited by isittimetomoveyet; 2008-Dec-23 at 16:51. Reason: Whoa... too many questions?

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    I believe that it's foolish to believe that anything else is going to happen. There are going to be some express trains and there will be some local trains. The unanswered question is what the ratio of express to local will be. Under the original proposal it was tilted towards more express trains. Under the RTP, it's tilted towards more local trains. I suspect it's going to fall somewhere in the middle.

    Bottom line:

    There will be frequent local service as far as Brampton, and there will be service to the airport too.

    But my question is this:

    Can someone please explain to me how a Budd RDC is outdated if all of it's components were built in the last 5 years?
    Last edited by RedRocket191; 2008-Dec-23 at 16:58.
    Visions For The GTTA A blog about all things urban and regional.

    - "But what do I know, I'm just a transportation planner. No one listens to me."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRocket191 View Post

    Is a Budd RDC outdated if all of it's components were built in the last 5 years?
    I would really like to see the electrification of this corridor. I dont know the details of the length of the line and such, but it might be a good pilot before electrifying the (longer?) Lakeshore West line... a good litmus test in a place that really needs a world class piece of transportation to get to the Downtown Core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by isittimetomoveyet View Post
    I would really like to see the electrification of this corridor. I dont know the details of the length of the line and such, but it might be a good pilot before electrifying the (longer?) Lakeshore West line... a good litmus test in a place that really needs a world class piece of transportation to get to the Downtown Core.
    I would love to see electrification on all rail lines but I also see the DMU as a way to achieve many of the advantages of running EMUs in the interim. Australian DMUs are capable of 200 km/h, while the UK railway companies run DMUs in commuter, inter-city and metro-like services.
    Last edited by RedRocket191; 2008-Dec-23 at 17:08.
    Visions For The GTTA A blog about all things urban and regional.

    - "But what do I know, I'm just a transportation planner. No one listens to me."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRocket191 View Post
    I would love to see electrification on all rail lines but I also see the DMU as a way to achieve many of the advantages of running EMUs in the interim. Australian DMUs are capable of 200 km/h, while the UK railway companies run DMUs in commuter, inter-city and metro-like services.
    After a quick search, you could be right. I guess I just find it bizarre picturing anything other than a typically GO train riding through that corridor.

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    There's no doubt that we'll need bi-levels for rush hour service, but a subway-sized train of EMUs or DMUs running every 30 minutes or better should be enough to handle the capacity.

    One possibility could be to put motors into a bi-level cab car and get it to haul around a train. Two of those in a six car train should provide more than enough power and capacity.

    Now, the only issue (and the one rail-fans tend to pounce on) is the issue of crash safety. European designs don't meet north american standards for shared lines. We would either have to design heavier (and more powerful) vehicles like Colorado Railcar did or restrict full sized trains to certain times of the day (like Ottawa did).
    Visions For The GTTA A blog about all things urban and regional.

    - "But what do I know, I'm just a transportation planner. No one listens to me."

  8. #473
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRocket191 View Post
    There's no doubt that we'll need bi-levels for rush hour service, but a subway-sized train of EMUs or DMUs running every 30 minutes or better should be enough to handle the capacity.

    One possibility could be to put motors into a bi-level cab car and get it to haul around a train. Two of those in a six car train should provide more than enough power and capacity.

    Now, the only issue (and the one rail-fans tend to pounce on) is the issue of crash safety. European designs don't meet north american standards for shared lines. We would either have to design heavier (and more powerful) vehicles like Colorado Railcar did or restrict full sized trains to certain times of the day (like Ottawa did).
    Forget Colorado Railcar as it on death bed. The only thing keeping it alive is the TriMet order.

    Other than the odd VIA train, European design DMU can operate in the existing corridor. CP has it's own track at this time and is separate from CN line.

    Time to get the head on straight and move to European standards.

    3-5 single level cars trains will work in the beginning with 30 minute headway. Even if headway becomes every 15 minutes, 5 car unites will handle the traffic to the airport as well in Toronto.

    As we move to EMU's, we can look a double level cars from day one for the Lakeshore line even for 3-5 car unites operating every 10-15 minutes. At peak time, more cars will be require.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drum118 View Post
    Forget Colorado Railcar as it on death bed. The only thing keeping it alive is the TriMet order.
    I use it only as an example to counter those who say that it cannot be done. I think you and I both know where those people hang out...
    Visions For The GTTA A blog about all things urban and regional.

    - "But what do I know, I'm just a transportation planner. No one listens to me."

  10. #475

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    Meh, I'm less excited by any kind of airport link (Blue 22, GO, whatever) than most other transit projects in the city. I always get the feeling that it is motivated more by 'this city in Europe has it...' logic than, you know, real transit planning. I'm not saying nobody would use it, I just don't see it being the be all and all of urban transport. Personally, I would rather we just put a rocket bus from Sheppard Stn->YYZ via hwy 401. Hell, go for gold. Union bus terminal->YYZ via the Garinder & 427. I realize this doesn't soothe our euro inferiority complex and doesn't give politicians as many opportunities to announce this and cut ribbons on that, but it would be nice to have a decent bus from stations other than Kipling using regular TTC fare.

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    You're right, it's nowhere near the be-all-and-end-all to our transit problems.

    But, the infrastructure that we need to build in order to make it happen will open up the door to more frequent train service to many under-serviced parts of the city and the region.

    I'm at the point where I believe that a bait-and-switch is morally acceptable in order to get funding.
    Visions For The GTTA A blog about all things urban and regional.

    - "But what do I know, I'm just a transportation planner. No one listens to me."

  12. #477

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    p5connex, I totally agree. However, do you mind changing one or two of your words?
    Of course not. Thanks for mentioning it to me and sorry about that.

    ---
    ...by design

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    I really am not too picky about what kind of rail cars are run on the GO lines as long as they're frequent. At most times of day, they don't need the massive capacity provided by the bilevels.

  14. #479
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Toronto, Ontario
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    525

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    >>>Personally, I would rather we just put a rocket bus from Sheppard Stn->YYZ via hwy 401. Hell, go for gold. Union bus terminal->YYZ via the Garinder & 427.<<<

    Isn't there already a bus from union station to YYZ? [EDIT: Or at least from the Royal York which is essentially the same place]

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjc View Post
    >>>Personally, I would rather we just put a rocket bus from Sheppard Stn->YYZ via hwy 401. Hell, go for gold. Union bus terminal->YYZ via the Garinder & 427.<<<

    Isn't there already a bus from union station to YYZ? [EDIT: Or at least from the Royal York which is essentially the same place]
    Both exist. GO runs from York Mills and Yorkdale to Pearson, and also runs a Square One - Pearson - Langstaff service.

    Airport Express (private company) runs to the downtown core.

    It's not enough if people don't know it exists, if you ask me...
    Visions For The GTTA A blog about all things urban and regional.

    - "But what do I know, I'm just a transportation planner. No one listens to me."

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