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Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport Pedestrian Tunnel
Bathurst Street Terminal, Toronto
Developer: Toronto Port Authority
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Thread: Porter Airlines and Billy Bishop (Island) Airport (Porter/Toronto Port Authority)

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    Quote Originally Posted by golodhendil View Post
    Tell that to Boston or the Logan Airport. While LOG, at 1 km away from Boston's downtown and waterfront, is twice farther than YTZ is from Toronto's downtown, it is an international airport with commercial jets flying out. Boston's waterfront may not exactly be teeming with life, but the airport certainly has very little effect on it (except contributing to the striking down of the plans for a couple of supertalls in Boston downtown, due to flight paths).
    Same with London City Airport out in the Docklands business district. They're strict on the planes/pilots who can fly in and out because of the high-rises, but it still moves nearly three million people a year. Flights to northern and central Europe and the possibility of a transatlantic service.

    With Pearson, YTZ, and Hamilton working together and used efficiently with high speed rail, we could shelve the Pickering Airport plans permanently.


  2. #617
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    near Bay & Bloor
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    1,695

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    I just did the Newark trip and have mixed feelings about it, but will definitely do it again. The service was excellent.

    I had scheduled the 6:45 am flight out thinking, okay, I can save time (and money) by staying in downtown rather than getting out to Pearson. This would have been fine if the flight hadn't been delayed 45 minutes, thereby nullifying the time saver.

    On the way home, my flight was cancelled, but they put me on their next flight out (2 hours later; gave me time to read the NY Times, but would have rather been back in TO or wandering in Midtown) and gave me a lunch voucher and another voucher for $50 my next Porter flight.

    Both flights were about 2/3 full.

    I also really wish there were a bridge across the waterway at YTZ. The ferry is ridiculously inefficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenleaf View Post
    I also really wish there were a bridge across the waterway at YTZ. The ferry is ridiculously inefficient.
    I don't know where that groundswell of opposition to the bridge came from. Hell, I was against the bridge at the time as well. But now I think the bridge is a good idea. We should connect the islands to the city more.

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    The Island Airport, yes. The other islands can stay ferries; the residents like it and it's part of the experience of going out to Centreville.

    They've been talking about some sort of connection to the island since the 1930s, and none have ever happened. The energy just isn't there. The opposition to the most recent project was probably coupled to the opposition to the airport's existence. But let's face it, if you're moving into a condo on the waterfront knowing that the airport is there, your argument doesn't really have much weight to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DHLawrence85 View Post
    But let's face it, if you're moving into a condo on the waterfront knowing that the airport is there, your argument doesn't really have much weight to it.
    You would think so... but that weightless argument may very well have been the issue that put Miller in office. Clearly it carries some weight...
    Visions For The GTTA A blog about all things urban and regional.

    - "But what do I know, I'm just a transportation planner. No one listens to me."

  6. #621

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    If there were a bridge, I would like some sort of way for pedestrians and bicyclists to get across to Hanlan's Point. Otherwise, it's just a bridge to serve the interests of a private firm (even if one does like the service) and a discredited federal port authority. The ferries will still serve the masses headed to Centre or Ward's.

    I'd probably support a bridge if it meant public access to more than just the airport.

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    It would be nice to see a pedestrian/LRT bridge built equipped with bike lanes and with some kind of ROW LRT/People Mover and path connecting the foot of Bathurst Street all the way to Centre Island.

    For example.
    The Dudley B. Menzies Bridge (aka LRT Bridge) over the North Saskatchewan River in Edmonton, Alberta. A separate Footbridge (in blue) is suspended under the deck of the light rail bridge. Obviously if something like this would be built here, it would be 1/10 the length.




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_B._Menzies_Bridge
    Last edited by Automation Gallery; 2009-Mar-12 at 00:00.

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    I'd like to see Deluce give Miller the one fingered salute by building the tunnel that was mentioned in the article. He can work his way up to pretty bridges slowly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kEiThZ View Post
    I'd like to see Deluce give Miller the one fingered salute by building the tunnel that was mentioned in the article. He can work his way up to pretty bridges slowly.

    As long as David Miller is the Mayor of Toronto, i dont think that he will ever allow a fix link to the islands, even though it makes sense to have them connected in various locations with pedestrian bridges/tunnels.

  10. #625

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    would be kind of interesting.... haven't figured out how to actually go through the airport besides just trying avoid planes.

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    Lakeshore and Cibola Ave run right across the southern outer peninsula of this group of Toronto islands, basically from the City Centre Airport/Hanlan Point bounderies to the most easternly part of the islands which is aprox 9 km. A 300 meter pedestrian tunnel under the airport would be ideal to connect to the existing roadway.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OS...ith_labels.png

    Where there is a will there is a way.

    Im a diehard Torontonian and at this moment i am working in a small subtropical volcanic island which in the last couple years has been building and tunneling for a highway system through out a complicated lavarock mountain range. This highway system has now over 40 sophisticated tunnels in the 300-3000 meter range in operation. Again if a small little island in the middle of the Atlantic can do it, im sure Toronto also can.
    Last edited by Automation Gallery; 2009-Mar-12 at 01:59.

  12. #627
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    525

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    I would hope that any replacement for the ferry does not result in people having to walk across the channel (pedestrian bridge/tunnel). There would have to be vehicle access of some type.

    Has anyone heard anything regarding whether they will be getting US preclearance at the island anytime soon? I've seen Mr. Deluce mentioning DCA as a possible destination this year...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbt View Post
    Any trip not involving YTZ means competing directly with Air Canada and Westjet on the same terms with price being the only real differentiator (both Air Canada and WestJet can run higher frequencies at lower prices with a more comfortable ride). They don't always, but easily could.

    YTZ is Porters trump card that makes it worth taking. Much more convenient.

    After taxes, airport fees, etc. Air Canada is still $20 (10%) cheaper than porter for a round trip. ($216 for porter vs. $194 for Air Canada). WestJet also comes in at $216. May 19th to May 21st, a trip I intend to take on Via 1.

    The taxes and airport fees seem to add the same to all 3 tickets. The difference is that Air Canada seats start at $58 ($69 - baggage, points, etc.) instead of $69.

    That is a very good point....at some point, though, they are going to have to compete on more than just "we have the island"......as they keep adding planes they are going to have to utilize those planes and will have to consider routes that don't go through YTZ.....I just did a quick check on their web page...currently the only destinations that are connected to each other are Ottawa and Halifax.....it would seem to me that there might be other opportunities even within their current route system to ease into non-YTZ flights.

  14. #629
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    525

    Default

    >>>at some point, though, they are going to have to compete on more than just "we have the island"......as they keep adding planes they are going to have to utilize those planes and will have to consider routes that don't go through YTZ.....I just did a quick check on their web page...currently the only destinations that are connected to each other are Ottawa and Halifax...<<<

    They flew Quebec-Halifax last year, and fly Tremblant-Montreal. They have been talking about making Halifax year-round, maybe that could lead to more Quebec-Halifax flights as well (since noone else does that route).

    I think that they do compete on more than "we have the island" now.

    - Check-in lines are usually much shorter for Porter than Air Canada/Westjet in most airports
    - Porter's inflight service is better (compared with non-business class Air Canada). I like the Westjet TVs though.
    - Fewer people on the plane means fewer people between you and the door getting in your way.

    I would think that there might be opportunities for several non-YTZ routes:
    YOW-DCA
    YOW-EWR
    YOW-MDW (no idea if there is a market there or not)
    YHZ-BOS (what sort of planes are doing that now?)

    Or add some more long distance destinations via intermediate sites (creating a new non-YTZ leg) to places noone currently serves.

    Perhaps something like YTZ--YZX, maybe via YTR or YGK or YOW. There could possibly be some military traffic that could help to subsidize that route.

    EDIT: when they add new US destinations (such as BOS or DCA) and put staff into those destinations to support the YTZ flights, it wouldn't be much trouble to add YOW and YUL (or YQB or YHZ) flights to/from those destinations. It is looking likely that sooner or later they are going to end up with more planes than they have slots at YTZ to use. Too bad they can't do YHZ-BOS-YTZ.
    Last edited by sjc; 2009-Mar-12 at 11:21.

  15. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sjc View Post
    >>>at some point, though, they are going to have to compete on more than just "we have the island"......as they keep adding planes they are going to have to utilize those planes and will have to consider routes that don't go through YTZ.....I just did a quick check on their web page...currently the only destinations that are connected to each other are Ottawa and Halifax...<<<

    They flew Quebec-Halifax last year, and fly Tremblant-Montreal. They have been talking about making Halifax year-round, maybe that could lead to more Quebec-Halifax flights as well (since noone else does that route).

    I think that they do compete on more than "we have the island" now.

    - Check-in lines are usually much shorter for Porter than Air Canada/Westjet in most airports
    - Porter's inflight service is better (compared with non-business class Air Canada). I like the Westjet TVs though.
    - Fewer people on the plane means fewer people between you and the door getting in your way.

    I would think that there might be opportunities for several non-YTZ routes:
    YOW-DCA
    YOW-EWR
    YOW-MDW (no idea if there is a market there or not)
    YHZ-BOS (what sort of planes are doing that now?)

    Or add some more long distance destinations via intermediate sites (creating a new non-YTZ leg) to places noone currently serves.

    Perhaps something like YTZ--YZX, maybe via YTR or YGK or YOW. There could possibly be some military traffic that could help to subsidize that route.
    I will have to dig out my airport code handbook to respond fully but business models based on serving someone that other people do not currently serve often find out why they were not served in the first place.

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