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Thread: Transit Fantasy Maps

  1. #3676
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    So here’s a new map I concocted. In a way it’s an adoption of the GOALRT idea of years past, and a Midtown GO line – with trains routed through Eglinton instead of along the CP main line. It might be a bit wonky. But thanks to either Gweed or WisaHD for the GoogleEarth template. And I apologize if I’m bombarding this thread...it’s a bit addictive playing around with lines on a map and inventing remedies.
    Looking good! I'll address each segment point by point and offer my two cents, haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    A converted GO Milton line would be routed north on an elevated viaduct through Humber Valley just east of Royal York (behind Rob Ford’s house, funnily enough). I’m sure this is 100% possible, but I can’t vet for any routing through the Humber Valley as much I can with the Don Valley. At Jane this would continue as the Crosstown.
    Interesting alignment, although I think if the goal is to reach Square One it would make more sense to route it along Eglinton West to Renforth Gateway and then either run beside the Mississauga Transitway, or replace it. You could also build a spur to the airport from there, which would satisfy your lower frequency criteria because the frequency would be cut in half at Renforth, considering that's where the split would be. Besides Square One, Renforth Gateway is probably the biggest trip generator along either of those two alignments.

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    Rather than terminating at Sheppard and Markham Rd like my previous Crosstown-Ellesmere-SRT proposal, this would continue as an elevated line north on Markham Rd to the rail corridor (not sure the name of the southernmost line). Turning east, it would then run to Malvern, Morningside Heights; and continue as a commuter line to north Pickering, Seaton, and whatever major airport may exist. And perhaps a small spur for Rouge Park and the Zoo (for weekend and summer use). Considering this last vestige of a major greenspace bisecting the GTA will be turned into sprawling suburbs just like the other million hectares, it’d be nice to have some railed transit put in beforehand. And I guess there’s federal funding to be had considering a National Park and major airport is involved.
    Agreed, and very similar to what I had proposed for the Scarborough GO REX (SRT alignment through Scarborough, connection to Seaton via the rail corridor). Certainly makes sense IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    North of Lawrence, the Don Line (DRL) would run in place of the Richmond Hill line. Its current riders may be upset that Union is no longer the terminus and that the ride may (or may not) be a bit longer, but the ends justifies the means. This would reduce the crunch at Union, and may even negate any need to extend Yonge to Richmond Hill. Regardless, the south end of the Richmond Hill line had some serious (multi-year, multi-tens of $millions) floodplane issues needing addressing before ever becoming RER.
    Yup, agreed here as well. The best way to reduce the capacity crunch on the Yonge line is to divert people off of it before they even get there. Diverting Toronto riders is nice, but diverting York Region riders before they even reach the Yonge line by offering them a valid alternative is even better. I also did the math a while ago, and upgrading the Richmond Hill GO line from just north of Lawrence to RHC + a tunnel from Eglinton to Lawrence is roughly equivalent in cost to building the North Yonge extension.

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    As well, UPX would have several stations added and be switched to the same light rolling stock. Nothing new, basically a DRL West as it could’ve/should’ve been.
    I see this more as a branch of the Brampton/Kitchener GO REX line than as an LRT line personally, but that's just my opinion. Taking up 2 tracks for LRT in a pretty crowded corridor may not work too well.

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    Throw in a Lake Shore East/West RER, and Toronto would be a real 21st C metropolis.
    Yup, and the Brampton, Markham, Milton, and Barrie GO REX lines as well. Build those plus what you've proposed here and Toronto is pretty much set.
    Twitter: @JAndrewJ86


  2. #3677

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    Thanks. I’m not really trying to go to Square One per se, or any particular current hub of ‘Sauga. Rather trying to intersect key N/S 905 arterials which could otherwise see transit-oriented development (and maybe more stations) in the future. I’ve always liked the idea of a grade-separated Eglinton West, which seems logical on paper. But it would be a costly project (especially with the loss of some of the Richview corridor), and it does put a trajectory into Sauga a tad farther north than I’d like. Although it’s completely fictitious, I think using Humber Valley to connect Eglinton to Bloor and Milton line roughly achieves everything that an Eglinton West extension could – and doubling as a partial Midtown line... Minus any airport connection or fast Midtown-level service. And I don’t want to interfere with the real prospect of SmartTrack *rolls eyes*.

    Oh shoot; I saw you had a connection to Seaton, but didn’t see it was using the SRT alignment. I thought I was being inventive by putting to good use what may otherwise be an abandoned stretch of SRT. On top of your template, I’m now taking your ideas too! There might be a thread on this, but what do you think would be a better route to any future airport or north Pickering development: this Seaton line, or the (Havelock?) line to Peterborough?

    And not building Yonge may be beneficial if there’s a realistic alternative. I know Markham and RH politicos have been pushing to have Richmond Hill GO become the DRL (so as to fastrack a Yonge ext); but using the same logic it can be argued that a better RH could reduce the need for their pet Yonge ext. It seems many people in Toronto are obsessed with creating new local priorities and Scarborough connections that they’re ignoring Yonge - which may very well be built before any Scarb Subway. Not that I can blame them, I rarely ever see Yonge on any promised maps.

    RE UPX… I guess I might not know exactly what RER even is. I’ve been on systems before, but didn’t really clue in at the time how it stood out. What I’m picturing is plain Crosstown-like LRT, but run just as a high-frequency commuter line in its outer stretches. So in essence this UPX line I’ve shown could take the place of a Brampton/Kitchener GO line…but I may have to think about this some more and do some reading up.

  3. #3678
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    Thanks. I’m not really trying to go to Square One per se, or any particular current hub of ‘Sauga. Rather trying to intersect key N/S 905 arterials which could otherwise see transit-oriented development (and maybe more stations) in the future. I’ve always liked the idea of a grade-separated Eglinton West, which seems logical on paper. But it would be a costly project (especially with the loss of some of the Richview corridor), and it does put a trajectory into Sauga a tad farther north than I’d like. Although it’s completely fictitious, I think using Humber Valley to connect Eglinton to Bloor and Milton line roughly achieves everything that an Eglinton West extension could – and doubling as a partial Midtown line... Minus any airport connection or fast Midtown-level service. And I don’t want to interfere with the real prospect of SmartTrack *rolls eyes*.
    Fair enough. My rationale is simply that the Milton line will probably be getting GO REX level service anyway, so adding LRT to it, especially if it's the same stop spacing, just seems like a duplication in service (much like SmartTrack paralleling the Kitchener GO REX). The LRT extension along the Mississauga Transitway ROW could be done relatively inexpensively as well, and they'll have to Ottawa Transitway upgrade to base it on (happening starting in 2016).

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    Oh shoot; I saw you had a connection to Seaton, but didn’t see it was using the SRT alignment. I thought I was being inventive by putting to good use what may otherwise be an abandoned stretch of SRT. On top of your template, I’m now taking your ideas too! There might be a thread on this, but what do you think would be a better route to any future airport or north Pickering development: this Seaton line, or the (Havelock?) line to Peterborough?
    Hahaha, no problem! I don't "own" any ideas, I'm just happy when people see value in them and incorporate them into their own schemes. As for a future routing to the airport, I'd say the Seaton line. It would be easier to build a spur off to the airport (much like the UPX spur) and have the main line actually being useful for transit, as opposed to having a line that goes through the middle of a park on the way to the airport. The latter routing kind of makes it a one trick pony.

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    And not building Yonge may be beneficial if there’s a realistic alternative. I know Markham and RH politicos have been pushing to have Richmond Hill GO become the DRL (so as to fastrack a Yonge ext); but using the same logic it can be argued that a better RH could reduce the need for their pet Yonge ext. It seems many people in Toronto are obsessed with creating new local priorities and Scarborough connections that they’re ignoring Yonge - which may very well be built before any Scarb Subway. Not that I can blame them, I rarely ever see Yonge on any promised maps.
    Good points. The other advantage I see to a GO REX RH DRL (wow that's a long acronym, haha) is that it has the potential to keep the BRT lanes along Yonge connecting to Finch or a Steeles Station. That way for southbound Yonge riders who are headed to NYCC, the transfer point at RHC is eliminated. And let's face it, if there's GO REX and BRT both heading south from RHC, the majority of riders will be on GO REX, so BRT would be sufficient for all of Yonge within YR.

    Quote Originally Posted by 44 North View Post
    RE UPX… I guess I might not know exactly what RER even is. I’ve been on systems before, but didn’t really clue in at the time how it stood out. What I’m picturing is plain Crosstown-like LRT, but run just as a high-frequency commuter line in its outer stretches. So in essence this UPX line I’ve shown could take the place of a Brampton/Kitchener GO line…but I may have to think about this some more and do some reading up.
    The way that I envision RER working is much like it works in Berlin (U-Bahn), Paris (RER), or to use a North American example, San Francisco (BART). Multiple lines running decent frequencies in the outer and middle suburbs, converging as they get closer to the city centre to run at subway-like frequencies. Trains are a hybrid between subway cars and GO cars, with more doors for faster loading and unloading, but more comfortable seats for long-distance rides like a GO train.
    Twitter: @JAndrewJ86

  4. #3679

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    Here’s another contribution to the zeitgeist of Toronto amateur transit fantasy maps. I was making a template of GO to overlay our subway system, but decided to tweak things a bit and show it all as if it were rapid transit. Normally I’d sum something like this up as an ultra-fantasy map; but it’s not really that wild since this is more or less the corridors that exist today.

    Other than straight sections of the Barrie and Stouffville lines, I think it gives our system a more natural fluidity like most major cities’ systems. And the black background and to-scale representation allows GO’s routes to stand out a bit more. Not much new, this is more just for show.

    -Eglinton Crosstown is interlined and through-routed with the Milton line and (future) Seaton line - with an express using the Midtown corridor, and connection to Kipling using the Humber Valley. The route also makes use of the current/future SRT and an extension along Ellesmere.

    -Richmond Hill is interlined with the DRL north of Lawrence Ave E (and the previous ‘Don Branch’ routing I proposed through Broadview and Leaside). This runs along Queen until it turns south and hits the Exhibition grounds and BB. Perhaps eventually to become an elevated waterfront loop all the way to the Port Lands in the east.

    -SmartTrack is merely the Stouffville line, but interlined with the Kitchener line. And Lakeshore East/West are one line.
    Name:  Don-Crosstown-smart-track_3.png
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    I've never liked the idea of Milton being re-routed through the Midtown line. Most of those commuters are heading for the area around Union, not midtown Toronto.

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