Subway/Transit Maps Thead (including fantasy maps)

[TheTigerMaster]

the $409 million is for the elevated portion and the stations. most of the corridor funding is under the $1.2 billion georgetown corridor upgrade.

Good point. I think $700 Million sounds about right to me. We're talking about an 11 km line on preexisting rail corridors that will need a very limited amount of new rolling stock (if any) and three stations (two of which will be preexisting).

[TheTigerMaster]

No but you are proposing to put an additional tax burden on Toronto taxpayers of $8billion on top of their share of the $34 billion which ML are going to raise.

How to generate that money really is up to TO Council. They have a variety of tools at their disposal, whether it be new taxes, tolling 905ers in Toronto, finding $8 Billion under the couch cushion (my preferred option )... I just tried to create something that showed what Toronto could have in the future fror $x amount of money

If you are going to mix in the ML projects and say "This will cost Toronto $8.1 Billion" then, surely, you have to mix in the share of the $34 Billion that Torontonians will pay towards the ML projects city and region wide? No?

I'm not seeing your point

What I proposed was an $8 Billion (approx) plan that would build a Don Mills Subway, Kipling BRT, Jane LRT, Malvern LRT, Finch East LRT and Scarborough-Downtown Express Subway.

Sure you could mix it in with the $34 Billion regional ML plan and call it a $42 Billion series of transit plans. Either way, the end result is the same. Toronto pays $8 Billion more and gets 6 additional transit projects in addition to the current ML projects.

Perhaps you're thinking that I was trying to mislead people by saying we could have a 240 km transit network for $8 Billion. If so, that was not my intention. I tried to be as clear as possible who would be paying for what. Which is why I listed the cost along with who is paying for it (Metrolinx, Ottawa or Toronto).

[TOareaFan]

How to generate that money really is up to TO Council. They have a variety of tools at their disposal, whether it be new taxes, tolling 905ers in Toronto, finding $8 Billion under the couch cushion (my preferred option )... I just tried to create something that showed what Toronto could have in the future fror $x amount of money

And their success in raising that would be at least partly dependent on how much money people had left after funding the original $34Billion ML plan. There may be lots of people dipping in but there is only one taxpayer pocket!

I'm not seeing your point

What I proposed was an $8 Billion (approx) plan that would build a Don Mills Subway, Kipling BRT, Jane LRT, Malvern LRT, Finch East LRT and Scarborough-Downtown Express Subway.

Sure you could mix it in with the $34 Billion regional ML plan and call it a $42 Billion series of transit plans. Either way, the end result is the same. Toronto pays $8 Billion more and gets 6 additional transit projects in addition to the current ML projects.

Perhaps you're thinking that I was trying to mislead people by saying we could have a 240 km transit network for $8 Billion. If so, that was not my intention. I tried to be as clear as possible who would be paying for what. Which is why I listed the cost along with who is paying for it (Metrolinx, Ottawa or Toronto).

If you could stand a bit of constructive criticism, then, if I were marking your work I would give it a failing grade because your opening paragraph/hypothesis contains exactly that assertion.

I think it's fair to say that I've accomplished my mission considering that just about everyone would be 2 km or less from RT and that it costs only $8 Billion.

[TheTigerMaster]

If you could stand a bit of constructive criticism, then, if I were marking your work I would give it a failing grade because your opening paragraph/hypothesis contains exactly that assertion.

Thanks for pointing that out. The statement was unintentionally misleading and I would certainly give myself a failing grade as well. I'll have to edit that out to say something along the lines of, "almost all of Toronto will be 2 km or less from transit at a cost to the City of Toronto that is approximately $8 Billion".

[TheTigerMaster]

And their success in raising that would be at least partly dependent on how much money people had left after funding the original $34Billion ML plan. There may be lots of people dipping in but there is only one taxpayer pocket!

Well we shall see how aggressive Metrolinx is with their funding tools and how it impacts the City of Toronto. So far, they've only added charges for using HOV lanes, which nobody really is complaining about, but there is much more to come.

[BurlOak]

Well we shall see how aggressive Metrolinx is with their funding tools and how it impacts the City of Toronto. So far, they've only added charges for using HOV lanes, which nobody really is complaining about, but there is much more to come.

Can the HOT lanes be simply an annual fee to use the lanes. Maybe give a different colour license plat or sticker. That way there would be next to no infrastucture cost needed to collect the fee.

A quick calculation would be 20 cents per km tines 20 km per day times 250 working days per year. That works out ro $1000 per year. This seems a bit high, but that would be the charge for unlimited HOT access for the year. Maybe you offer only a certain number of such passes ( maybe 10 to 50k) so the HOT lane will not become clogged. As more lanes are added, more permits could be issued.

[TheTigerMaster]

Can the HOT lanes be simply an annual fee to use the lanes. Maybe give a different colour license plat or sticker. That way there would be next to no infrastucture cost needed to collect the fee.

A quick calculation would be 20 cents per km tines 20 km per day times 250 working days per year. That works out ro $1000 per year. This seems a bit high, but that would be the charge for unlimited HOT access for the year. Maybe you offer only a certain number of such passes ( maybe 10 to 50k) so the HOT lane will not become clogged. As more lanes are added, more permits could be issued.

I can imagine the headline in the Toronto Sun:

Wynne Demands Drivers Pay $1000+ for the Privilage of Using OUR Highways

Beside an unflattering photo of her.

What you suggest is a great idea, but the optics would be horrible. Better to let drivers use them without an annual fee.

[TOareaFan]

Thanks for pointing that out. The statement was unintentionally misleading and I would certainly give myself a failing grade as well. I'll have to edit that out to say something along the lines of, "almost all of Toronto will be 2 km or less from transit at a cost to the City of Toronto that is approximately $8 Billion".

But that is only true if you somehow draw a distinction between the "City of Toronto" and the "people of Toronto"....otherwise the cost is not $8B.....and if you do think there is a material difference between a city and the people in it/who fund it...you probably have a brighter future in politics than transit planning

[TOareaFan]

Well we shall see how aggressive Metrolinx is with their funding tools and how it impacts the City of Toronto. So far, they've only added charges for using HOV lanes, which nobody really is complaining about, but there is much more to come.

ML did not add that.....the province did in its budget....even after saying it would not get specific about revenue tools until ML presented its plans!

Those HOV/HOT lanes are not going to go very far in funding the Big Move so there are many, many, Billions still to be raised....and a fair bit of that has to come out of the pockets of Torontonians.