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Thread: E'gawd, can't believe I'm considering federal NDP

  1. #1
    Admiral Beez Guest

    Default E'gawd, can't believe I'm considering federal NDP

    I just can't stand the federal libs any longer. My local, Bill Graham has does nothing I can recall for my neighbourhood, thus demonstrating that having a minister for an MP gets you nothing (unless you're in Quebec it seems).

    Anyway, back on topic... I need to send a signal to the liberals that they're not safe from the public's wrath. It can't vote for that mix of redneck/plain odd Conservatives, can't for the Bloc, so that leaves only one national party. Jack Layton seems like a reasonable fellow (g'awd, someone shoot me, I got my citizenship in the 1990s to kick out Rae from Ontario).


  2. #2
    ganjavih Guest

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    Beez voting NDP... I didn't see that coming.

  3. #3
    michaelpfox Guest

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    I'm a Liberal, but I think Layton is quite compelling. I'll still vote Liberal, but I have no problem with the NDP winning more seats.

  4. #4
    jamerinbow Guest

    Default

    Admiral, if you can't stomach voting NDP (I'm probably heading that way myself), consider voting Green. Their fiscal policy is surprisingly conservative.

    Better yet, it's a statement that you are not limited to the choices of Liberal / NDP / Conservative. If the mainstream parties realized, instead of staying home, voters might try other parties to steal their thunder... well, I think it would shake them up, and that's a good thing.

    ...James

  5. #5
    building babel Guest

    Default

    Voting Green when you can vote NDP, is like voting Nader instead of Gore.

  6. #6
    GeekyBoyTO Guest

    Default

    babel:

    Not really - there is quite a difference between Greens and NDP - the former usually doesn't have a strong labour focus as the latter does.

    It wouldn't matter in my area, unfortunately. Given the non-viability of NDP and Green candidates, it boils down to choosing between the incompetent but reasonable Liberals and facist conservatives. Easy choice, but I wish my ballot could be cast in a manner that is more meaningful.

    GB

  7. #7
    Admiral Beez Guest

    Default

    I don't believe in making statements from a safe position, i.e. it's easy to vote Green, since you'll feel good having done so, but know 100% that you'll never have to live the result.

    There is only one national party left that can beat the Liberals, and that's the NDP. Anyone who wanted a Conservative would vote for Martin, so those guys are going no where. Heck, when Martin came in, I was so pleased to be rid of Jean that if he'd had an election then I expected him to win every riding.

    The true reason I want the Liberals out, is that the other parties are planning to immeidately push through proportional representation. If you win 30% of the popular vote, you should get 30% of the seats or at least 30% of the weighted vote in Parliament. I'd go further, and make the PM a seperate box on the ballot, so that the people could chose their local rep. plus their national leader.

  8. #8
    Are Be Guest

    Default

    it boils down to choosing between the incompetent but reasonable Liberals and facist conservatives.
    -GB,
    Whereas I'm voting for the 'fascist" conservatives. It's the Liberals who are the fascists, spending money on a preferred ethnic group- Quebecers- at the expense of all others. Those Fascist Liberals- sad that we put up with them. Sick, that multicultural Toronto keeps reelecting those fascist Liberals so that Toronto's money can be spent on festivals in Quebec. What kind of sick monsters take from visible minorities in Toronto to support an outrageously elitist Formula 1 auto race in Quebec- centric Montreal? You guessed it, the not only incompetent, as GB quite rightly points out, but fascist Liberals. Liberal Canada: all are equally free to act against our own interest, and instead to fund Quebec!

    At least the Liberals have the good sense to be the willing dupes of big business and the banks. By golly, how incompetent would they be if they didn't see the need in this internationally competitive marketplace, to capitulate to trans national corporations? Martin, the friend of the banks, gets it. The Conservatives get it. The NDP does not get it. Part of the NDP's continuing war on the poor. ("Let's tax employers! What are they going to do? Shut down? Relocate?" Yup.)

    Oh... and maybe we should be careful about using terms like 'fascist.'

  9. #9
    building babel Guest

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    I live in Laton/Mills territory, so if the vote is very close and there is a Green Party 'spoiler' candidate it could definitely have Naderesque consequences. I have one or two NDP friends who have considered voting Green at one time or another, but none have said they were ever tempted to vote Liberal.

  10. #10
    mimicocreek Guest

    Default

    "facist conservatives"

    Hmmm... a party that advocates small government, personal liberty, and economic freedom doesn't sound fascist to me. Thank God they offer a platform somewhat appealing to my libertarian views.


    "There is only one national party left that can beat the Liberals, and that's the NDP. Anyone who wanted a Conservative would vote for Martin."

    Your statement clearly results from some sort of dementia. The NDP cannot and will not run this country, and they are not a viable alternative to the Liberal juggernaut. Also, Martin is not actually a conservative (note the small "c").

  11. #11
    nicetommy2002 Guest

    Default

    "It's the Liberals who are the fascists, spending money on a preferred ethnic group- Quebecers- at the expense of all others. Those Fascist Liberals- sad that we put up with them. Sick, that multicultural Toronto keeps reelecting those fascist Liberals so that Toronto's money can be spent on festivals in Quebec."


    AreBe - The pro-Quebec stance 'at any cost' was the policy of Chretien... The same double-talking Chretien who publicly stated that the theft of a few million here and there with regards to the marketing scandal in Quebec was no big deal.

    Martin is doing away with pampering Quebec. He is also doing away with the chronic tax wasting gimmicks of the old regime. The Chretien do-nothing machine of the past is dead. Just like Sheila Copps' career... it's History!

  12. #12
    Are Be Guest

    Default

    Agreed! :tup:
    And the Liberals are as Nazi like as the Conservatives are, that is to say, not at all.

  13. #13
    afransen TO Guest

    Default

    "The true reason I want the Liberals out, is that the other parties are planning to immeidately push through proportional representation. If you win 30% of the popular vote, you should get 30% of the seats or at least 30% of the weighted vote in Parliament. I'd go further, and make the PM a seperate box on the ballot, so that the people could chose their local rep. plus their national leader."

    Proportional representation is a recipe for a very unstable democracy. Governments will rarely be able to form a majority, leading us to frequent elections, stalled legislatures and the ability of fringe groups to have disproportionate influence on our democracy. For examples, simply look to Israel and Italy.

    As I have said a few times in the past, a preferential ballot is the way to go. We could keep our current riding system. All it entails is having a ballot where you rate the candidates or parties in order of preference, usually with a limit of 2 to 5 picks. So, one could choose:

    -Independent (candidate)
    -Green (")
    -NDP (")
    -Liberal (")

    Thus all the ballots are counted based on their first choices, and after the first round, the candidate with the lowest number of ballots (and perhaps all those with lower than 2% support just to cut down independents). The displaced ballots are moved on to the next choice. Process repeats until one candidate has a majority support.

    This will allow people to avoid strategic voting (ie, voting for Liberals instead of NDP to prevent a conservative candidate from being elected). This will also prevent fringe candidates from being elected, and give a higher number of majorities at least.

    Also, electing a prime minister separately is essentially a move to a presidential system.

  14. #14
    jamerinbow Guest

    Default

    Proportional representation has a place in this country, I think. It belongs in an elected senate.

    ...James

  15. #15
    Canuck 36 Guest

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    Just have a hybrid system like Israel (among others). Couldn't all the functions of local MP representation be done by the party that won a particular riding?

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