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Mark Saunders: Toronto's new police chief

King of Kensington said:
Sounds like Peter Sloly is more of a "reformer" while Saunders was the cops' choice.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/04/19/mark-saunders-named-torontos-next-police-chief.html
Click to expand...

Sloly was Blair's point-man on carding. Sloly made appearances before the board where he argued in favor of carding. I don't know why people think he is a "reformer". I don't think Saunders is any better than Sloly. He described carding as a "useful tool". I am hoping Saunders will be a big improvement over Blair. I don't know how anyone could be worse than Blair but I thought the same thing about Fantino.
 
Twin Towers said:
Sloly was Blair's point-man on carding. Sloly made appearances before the board where he argued in favor of carding. I don't know why people think he is a "reformer". I don't think Saunders is any better than Sloly. He described carding as a "useful tool". I am hoping Saunders will be a big improvement over Blair. I don't know how anyone could be worse than Blair but I thought the same thing about Fantino.
Click to expand...
According to the article, Sloly was opposed to carding.

Sloly is known to be opposed to carding and authored many of the recommended changes that outgoing Chief Bill Blair refused to implement.
Click to expand...

Saunders is the one quoted as describing carding as a "valuable tool"

In an interview with the Star in 2013, Saunders defended carding as “a valuable tool,” but also indicated he was open to change.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
wopchop said:
According to the article, Sloly was opposed to carding.



Saunders is the one quoted as describing carding as a "valuable tool"
Click to expand...

"Valuable tool" is political talk to me. It just means it is a "tool" that will or will not be used, depending upon the situation. How they use that "tool", whether to "nail" down suspects, or to create a "level" field would depend on how they use it. It can be used properly, or wrongly.
 
There is a really damning article in today's Toronto Life (well landed in my mailbox today - it says May on the cover for some reason) - http://www.torontolife.com/informer...im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/

It's a very good read. And very unusual for Toronto Life - it's normally so utterly banal and shallow.

It's a very disturbing read. I always figured I've never been carded partly because I'm white, and mostly because the of the neighbourhoods I walk around (Danforth, Corktown, Regent Park, Cabbagetown, Riverdale, etc.). It's very clear from the article that the Toronto Police force is still being very racist.

So will Mark Saunders tackle the racism that still exists in the force?

At the same time I wonder why anyone would ever identify themselves to a police officer, if they were just walking along a street. I'd certainly not do it. Am I unusual? And then it crossed my mind that if one is feeling intimidated by the police, would one be more likely to co-operate? Did police officers focus on carding blacks in non-black areas because they could fill their quota more quickly? I don't know the answers to this ... I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe there's a carding thread I should take that discussion to ...
 
Anyone who believes that police officers don't treat white people differently than black people is delusional.

Also, Great article. Thanks.
 
wopchop said:
According to the article, Sloly was opposed to carding.



Saunders is the one quoted as describing carding as a "valuable tool"
Click to expand...



Just because Sloly recommended "reforms" (such as issuing receipts to persons who had been illegally stopped) doesn't mean that Sloly was opposed to carding or a progressive on carding.

The fact is "carding" as it is now practiced is ILLEGAL under the Canadian charter of rights. Police cannot just stop people at random on the street for the purpose of collecting information and fishing around for infractions. Furthermore police should not be maintaining non-arrest records (which they share with prospective employers).

Police can only stop you if they have reasonable grounds to believe you are about to commit a crime, have committed a crime or have evidence of a crime.

I don't understand why people can't wrap their heads around the fact that "carding" is illegal and should be scrapped entirely and all of the non-arrest records destroyed.

As for Saunders - the fact that he thinks that a constitutionally illegal practice is a "valuable tool" tells me everything I need to know about the man. Clearly Saunders is unfit to be Chief of Police if he thinks that violating the charter rights of citizens is a "valuable tool".
 
Twin Towers said:
Just because Sloly recommended "reforms" (such as issuing receipts to persons who had been illegally stopped) doesn't mean that Sloly was opposed to carding or a progressive on carding.
Click to expand...
I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing out what the Star is reporting.

I think carding is a terrible practice and should be eliminated.
 
wopchop said:
Anyone who believes that police officers don't treat white people differently than black people is delusional.
Click to expand...
I don't think many people in Toronto think that. As for the police, in an environment where (by the media at least) blacks over-represent violent and drug related crimes, I think it would take an unusually quality of character to see the wider picture. In the end I think we're all tribal, and if we feel under siege or threat we look for others we consider in the tribe, and then we look to generalize and characterize those representing the threat. The police do the same, I suggest, in that when they patrol, looking for threats and then they identify and target those their experience as police officers tells them are in the threat category. The new chief needs to break down this us and them thinking.
 
nfitz said:
There is a really damning article in today's Toronto Life (well landed in my mailbox today - it says May on the cover for some reason) - http://www.torontolife.com/informer...im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/

It's a very good read. And very unusual for Toronto Life - it's normally so utterly banal and shallow.

It's a very disturbing read. I always figured I've never been carded partly because I'm white, and mostly because the of the neighbourhoods I walk around (Danforth, Corktown, Regent Park, Cabbagetown, Riverdale, etc.). It's very clear from the article that the Toronto Police force is still being very racist.

So will Mark Saunders tackle the racism that still exists in the force?

At the same time I wonder why anyone would ever identify themselves to a police officer, if they were just walking along a street. I'd certainly not do it. Am I unusual? And then it crossed my mind that if one is feeling intimidated by the police, would one be more likely to co-operate? Did police officers focus on carding blacks in non-black areas because they could fill their quota more quickly? I don't know the answers to this ... I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe there's a carding thread I should take that discussion to ...
Click to expand...

That was a good read. Pretty sad.
 
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