News   Apr 16, 2024
The Whitfield's Podium Takes Shape in the St Lawrence Neighbourhood
 406     2 
News   Apr 16, 2024
News Roundup for April 16, 2024
 403     1 
News   Apr 16, 2024
Windbreak Work
 756     0 

What are time based fares? How will they help?

Unlimited transit use for a certain amount of time: e.g. 2 hours.

That means with one fare you can do more than one trip.

Like, I take 61 Mavis to Square One at 5:15pm and at 7:00pm I take the same bus to go back home or another bus to go somewhere else. That's $2.80. If it was TTC, it would cost me $5.40.

Edit: Also should say, time-based transfers basically means fares can be worth it for short trips. A single fare might be used for multiple short trips. I think it's better than having a distance fare for TTC to confuse or divide everyone.
 
Last edited:
Vancouver uses time-based fares with the addition of zoned travel. So 90 minutes within one zone is $2.75, going up to $4 and $5.50 for 2 & 3 zones respectively. This means that if you live and shop in the same zone, you could conceivably do it all for $2.75. I found I used transit a lot more when I was only paying once, rather than twice within a small timespan.
 
I don't like the idea of zone fares because it punishes people for living near zone boundaries, and possibly dividing/isolating communities, and avoiding all that is part of the reason for having regional systems in the first place.

If you make zones smaller and only increase fare beyond the first two zones (or very small increase for the second zone), then it would be okay.
 
doady said:
I don't like the idea of zone fares because it punishes people for living near zone boundaries, and possibly dividing/isolating communities, and avoiding all that is part of the reason for having regional systems in the first place.

If you make zones smaller and only increase fare beyond the first two zones (or very small increase for the second zone), then it would be okay.
Click to expand...

This has always been my quibble with zone based fares. they provide disincentive to travel and "spread consumer dollars" around the city. I find them to be quite a disincentive for any kind on inclusivity especially for the most marginalized who often to have to travel long distances for services or work.

To make zone based fares work. i think the increases of traveling into the neighboring zone should be small with only farther zones being still small but more.

I would happily pay for increased fare (within reason) for time based transfer instead.
 
doady said:
Unlimited transit use for a certain amount of time: e.g. 2 hours.

That means with one fare you can do more than one trip.

Like, I take 61 Mavis to Square One at 5:15pm and at 7:00pm I take the same bus to go back home or another bus to go somewhere else. That's $2.80. If it was TTC, it would cost me $5.40.

Edit: Also should say, time-based transfers basically means fares can be worth it for short trips. A single fare might be used for multiple short trips. I think it's better than having a distance fare for TTC to confuse or divide everyone.
Click to expand...

Thanks doady!
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
will this help or hurt the ttc
Click to expand...

it might help.
I will be glad to pay $3 round trip to do some grocery shopping, but for $6, I will just walk all the way.

but honestly the current system is stupid. For example, I can take the 501 to travel from Queen/Yonge to Spadina/Queen, do a bunch of things there, and then using the 501 transfer (do the drivers care? No, they never do) to go to Spadina station, from where I can go anywhere in the city, including coming back southward to Queen/Yonge, which essentially completes a return trip for one fare.

but will I ever pay $6 to go between Yonge/Spadina? never.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
will this help or hurt the ttc
Click to expand...

I think it would be tough to say. It's tough to quantify the number of people on a daily basis who say "I'll walk it because I'll have to pay 2 fares, but if I only have to pay 1 to go 2 ways I'll pay it". I'm sure there are plenty, but to assign a dollar value to that would be difficult. It would also be hard to quantify how many of the current 2 fare trips would become 1 fare trips.

Being in Ottawa, I have experience with time-based fares, and I have to say I vastly prefer it to the TTC method. If you're only using the TTC to get to and from work, it doesn't make much of a difference to you. But for example, tonight I'm stopping off at the mall for 15-20 mins on my way home. Under the TTC fare rules, that would be 2 fares. But in Ottawa, I should have no problem taking those 2 trips within the 1h30m I'm allowed. Also, after 9pm in Ottawa a fare is good until 3am (end of the service day), so I've had several bar nights where I've gotten there and back on 1 fare, despite there being 4-5hrs between my trips.
 
Keep in mind, short trips don't strain the system as much as long trips. Even to serve three 15 minute trips does not require as much resources as it would to serve a single 60 minute trip, for example. Even if those three 15 minute trips are paid for by a single fare, it's arguably still more efficient for the TTC.

If there are already lots of people doing short trips and return trips in a small time interval, and suddenly they have a reduced fare, that would be bad for TTC. But that's an unfair fare in the first place. Like, if I couldn't take the Mavis bus to Sq One and back with one fare, I'd probably just bike instead. People avoiding using transit due to inflated fares is not beneficial to transit in any way, I don't think. Look what's happening to YRT. High fares suppressing ridership hurts systems, not benefit.
 
mrxbombastic said:
This has always been my quibble with zone based fares. they provide disincentive to travel and "spread consumer dollars" around the city. I find them to be quite a disincentive for any kind on inclusivity especially for the most marginalized who often to have to travel long distances for services or work.

To make zone based fares work. i think the increases of traveling into the neighboring zone should be small with only farther zones being still small but more.

I would happily pay for increased fare (within reason) for time based transfer instead.
Click to expand...
Its done in London - zones 1-6
 
doady said:
Keep in mind, short trips don't strain the system as much as long trips. Even to serve three 15 minute trips does not require as much resources as it would to serve a single 60 minute trip, for example. Even if those three 15 minute trips are paid for by a single fare, it's arguably still more efficient for the TTC.

If there are already lots of people doing short trips and return trips in a small time interval, and suddenly they have a reduced fare, that would be bad for TTC. But that's an unfair fare in the first place. Like, if I couldn't take the Mavis bus to Sq One and back with one fare, I'd probably just bike instead. People avoiding using transit due to inflated fares is not beneficial to transit in any way, I don't think. Look what's happening to YRT. High fares suppressing ridership hurts systems, not benefit.
Click to expand...

That is compensated by all the people who do not take transit now for a short trip because they need to pay the same amount as someone coming from Finch (i.e going to Union) but would with distance based fares
 
rbt said:
Any short trips added in peak hours, peak direction is going to add to congestion without paying the full price.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think too that peak hour fare should be increased.
I know many regular commuters don't even buy metropass because based on the trips they make, buying tokens is cheaper.

Palma said:
That is compensated by all the people who do not take transit now for a short trip because they need to pay the same amount as someone coming from Finch (i.e going to Union) but would with distance based fares
Click to expand...

Yep, from Yonge/Queen I always choose to walk as far as Bloor or even Rosedale sometimes. To pay $3 for a 10 minutes ride is insane. Take short ride only when with a day pass (in which case many trips during that day).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top