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Sam's Sign and the Yonge Street Heritage Zeitgeist

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Ryerson University nixes plan to display iconic Sam the Record Man sign on new building

The commemorative plan proposes inserting an image of the storefront sign into the sidewalk, including two discs and “SAM” four times in the distinct lettering. There will be accompanying text on the sidewalk and a plaque on the wall. The school also wants to launch an online tribute to “Music on Yonge — celebrating 70 years of Sam’s” at a Ryerson-affiliated website.

The report states that Ryerson consulted with Gregory Signs & Engraving Ltd. to evaluate the feasibility of restoring and hanging up the signs on the new student centre, designed by Snohetta and Zeidler Partnership Architects, and “identified concerns.” They include the risk of mercury spilling if a fire ignites or if something were to break; a drop in the number of qualified neon sign professionals; an increase in maintenance costs; the structural risks that could occur when mounting the 380-quare-foot piece; and their energy consumption. Zeidler also concluded there was “no suitable location” on its new building for Sam’s sign, citing energy concerns, “conflict” with the design and “the distraction within the interior of the building caused by the signs’ flashing lights.” The architects also looked at mounting the sign on the Ryerson library, but deemed it too far from the original location and said it could damage that building’s facade.

“We’re going to work with the city to find a new home for them,” Mr. Forbes added.
Click to expand...


http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...onic-sam-the-record-man-sign-on-new-building/
 
I agree with the idea brought up a while ago (forget who it was) that the best place for the SAM sign should be on a giant wall of vintage neon signs in a Museum of Toronto.
 
Exactly; it's outrageous that a deal on heritage/cultural protection could so easily be slipped out of, just because it's inconvenient for Ryerson to keep their promise. They should be forced to erect it, or made to pay an enormous fine.
 
The issue here isn't that they suddenly pulled a bait-and-switch so much as the City didn't really enforce the agreement from the very start. Obviously they cannot and never did plan to put the sign up on the new Student Learning Centre. That wouldn't do justice to the new centre's architecture or the history of Sam's in any case. There are better solutions here... there are better locations for the sign to be re-erected. But yeah, I see this as a failure of the city to enforce an agreement as much as I see it as a neglectful choice by Ryerson.

This PDF is very interesting, and includes a rendered idea of what the planned commemoration is on the sidewalk outside the building:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2013/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-60729.pdf
 
The sign would look ridiculous on the Snohetta building imo - the city made a good decision by not enforcing doctrinaire facadism on what will hopefully end up being a major work of art (the Student Learning Centre).....thus the artistic integrity of the Snohetta design is preserved...this is a good thing....

There are other more appropriate places where the sign can go....
 
yyzer said:
The sign would look ridiculous on the Snohetta building imo - the city made a good decision by not enforcing doctrinaire facadism on what will hopefully end up being a major work of art (the Student Learning Centre).....thus the artistic integrity of the Snohetta design is preserved...this is a good thing....

There are other more appropriate places where the sign can go....
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's true it would probably look ridiculous, but then Ryerson shouldn't have agreed to incorporate the sign into the design, and they shouldn't have decided on a building on which the sign would look ridiculous. They clearly never had any intention of fulfilling their promise, which is really obnoxious, and the city shouldn't be so obsequious.
 
I'm really disappointed with this but it was expected from the very beginning once we saw the oriiginal rendering. No render ever showed the signs anywhere nor was there any attempt made to find a spot for the signs. Ryerson never had any intention of fullfilling its promise and its that bad faith that stings.

That said, I do like the recreation in the sidewalk but it misses the best part of the signs: the lights! Embed spinning LEDs in the sidewalk and then we're talkin'.

As for the originals, can't they at least hang the decommissioned signs somewhere in the lobby of the Student Learning Centre? It's open to the public so anybody could just walk in and glance at the originals hanging on a wall in the lobby.
 
I'll be the first to say how nostalgic I am over these signs, but there's really not a whole lot of heritage value to them. One of the signs was from early to mid 70's, the other sign was late 80's. Some would argue that something from the 70's could be considered heritage, and perhaps they would be correct, but in the end they are just signs. Now wasn't the deal for it (them?) to go inside the building? I don't recall a proposal for the sign/signs to go on the outside of the Student Learning Centre, besides, that would just look ridiculous.
 
^ There's definitely a lot of personal nostalgia connected to this sign by some people (myself included) but I think it also has a lot of heritage and cultural importance for a number of reasons. These types of signs are an architectural element of which there are very few remaining in the city and Sam The Record Man and the Sniderman family did a lot for Toronto's music scene. The same argument could be made for the Honest Ed signs when that property is developed.
 
I think the really sad thing is, most people in this city value nothing but money. They couldn't care less about art, culture, historic buildings or anything else in the city. The only consideration is if something turns a profit. As a city we talk a good game but when it comes down to it, we know the price of everything but the value of nothing. And yes, that includes signed agreements! I guess that explains the election of Rob Ford.

Sometimes it's very hard to be a proud Torontonian. (especially when your values collide with the city you live in)
 
tiffer24 said:
I think some people confuse personal nostalgia with heritage or cultural importance.
Click to expand...

I am probably too young to be nostalgic, but it is clear that Sam's was a cultural mecca responsible for making music, both mainstream and obscure, accessible to the masses. Obviously there were other record stores, but with a 70 year run selling music it is easy to call Sam's culturally significant. This was the place you came for a newly released album, and many people got their first taste of culturally important bands at Sam's. Ask any generation of Torontonian where they bought their favourite album ever and they will probably say Sam the Record Man. Whether it was The Beatles in the 60s, Lynyrd Skynyrd in the 70s, Michael Jackson in the 80s or Nirvana in the 90s, a lot of peoples musical tastes in the pre mp3 era were defined by browsing through record stores, and we should do our best to remember the type of establishment that we probably won't ever see again.
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
I'll be the first to say how nostalgic I am over these signs, but there's really not a whole lot of heritage value to them. One of the signs was from early to mid 70's, the other sign was late 80's. Some would argue that something from the 70's could be considered heritage, and perhaps they would be correct, but in the end they are just signs. Now wasn't the deal for it (them?) to go inside the building? I don't recall a proposal for the sign/signs to go on the outside of the Student Learning Centre, besides, that would just look ridiculous.
Click to expand...

No, the deal was for ryerson to preserve the signs, as the entire property is/was (apparently) a designated heritage site. The signs could have gone inside, or on an adjacent building, however it's the cost of preserving the signs that has them running. Which is ridiculous - it's a $110 million dollar development that never would have happened without the city's approval re preservations of the signs. Now they are panicking at 250k to preserve them?

I find it extremely frustrating and clearly wrong that they are backing out of their commitment, and the city is apparently facilitating it. I don't agree at all that heritage is defined by age - certainly posters here have made a clear case why sam's was culturally important to the country. Sad that ryerson seems intent on putting a price tag on that importance (canada's musical heritage is not worth 250k, apparently, less than the cost of detatched home in most of ontario).
 
In the 1970s, it seemed that every time there was a news story about Toronto broadcast anywhere in Canada, it would include file footage of the Sam the Record Man storefront. It has to have been one of the most recognizable, dare I say 'iconic', images to represent Toronto back then. The signs are absolutely of historical/cultural significance.

What Ryerson is doing is despicable and unacceptable, although I am not at all surprised. Ryerson seems to be able to get away with a lot. If it were up to me, I would order construction on the student centre be halted until an acceptable plan for the conservation and public display of the signs is agreed to, with iron-clad enforcement mechanisms.
 
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