Premier Kathleen Wynne and What Her Election Means for Transit

[11th]

Fare-by-distance ... on one hand, I'm not sure why I should pay $2.65 for my trip on Saturday that was only 4 streetcar stops long (1.0 km) long. On the other hand, fare-by-distance is very difficult to govern on surface vehicles - even London doesn't charge fare-by-distance on it's buses - only the subway and trains.

It should be lower than $2.65. But you can bet the TTC won't be lowering the base charge by much if fare-by-distance is to be implemented.
On the other hand, for your example, I'd probably choose to walk those 1km than to pay the $2.65. It'd only be a 15min walk.

[innsertnamehere]

I hate it how when a politician pays attention to the problems of half of the voting base which have been ignored for 20 years people start screaming bloody murder and tell the politicians to completely ignore them because "the province is more than toronto)

[nfitz]

But you can bet the TTC won't be lowering the base charge by much if fare-by-distance is to be implemented.

Given TTC has made it clear they have no plans to implement fare-by-distance, it's tough to make bets!

[Catenary]

Given TTC has made it clear they have no plans to implement fare-by-distance, it's tough to make bets!

Ummm...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...medium=twitter

There may be no official plans, but that doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

And I'm afraid I disagree with Steve Munro on this one.

[nfitz]

Ummm...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...medium=twitter

There may be no official plans, but that doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

That's just lazy news reporting. You approach the politician, ask them a question out of the blue, they don't say no, but they'd have to consider it (which is effectively no), and then you write an article saying they are considering it.

TTC's Presto implementation isn't designed to do fare by distance. It would probably take $100+ million of extra hardware to do that - and perhaps a lot more in station redesigns.

It's almost as bad as all those articles saying the TTC was considering banning strollers.

Quite clearly TTC isn't about to implement fare-by-distance.

And I'm afraid I disagree with Steve Munro on this one.

Steve's comments in the article seem to be on the money. The only easy way to introduce fare-by-distance of any sort is to simply eliminate free transfers. I don't think that's the best approach.

[MetroMan]

Person gets on and waits 2 stops and taps to get off. Person exits the vehicle 25 stops after that.

Without a fare gate at every doorway that opens/closes for each tap, this is what a large percentage of riders will do.

Having that fare gate and forcing customers to have their card ready to exit will make the stops take longer and increase expenses (extra vehicles, drivers, fuel, etc. required to maintain the same capacity of the line). This doesn't impact the subway because the exits are separate from the trains.

Are people this short sighted? Put the tap off pole outside, at the bus stop. When you get off, you can go tap off at the stop to deduct the correct fare. If not, you're charged the full price.

[MetroMan]

Anyway, back on topic of Wynne and Transit, it seems that we finally have ourselves a Transit election. I've been waiting for this for at least 15 years.

Talking about taxes and tolls could potentially be deadly to the Liberals and/or the NDP who likely agree with them. However, if you manage to get through to people who are fed up with crawling highways and overstuffed subway trains, then you might be on to something. Emphasis on the results, not the method to pay for them.

[rbt]

Are people this short sighted? Put the tap off pole outside, at the bus stop. When you get off, you can go tap off at the stop to deduct the correct fare. If not, you're charged the full price.

At every bus stop across the GTA?

You've just spent at least 300 million (energy source is the big cost) on readers not including maintenance. Are you really willing to raise the average fare by a dime in order to break even on distance based fares?

[TOareaFan]

Anyway, back on topic of Wynne and Transit, it seems that we finally have ourselves a Transit election. I've been waiting for this for at least 15 years.

Talking about taxes and tolls could potentially be deadly to the Liberals and/or the NDP who likely agree with them. However, if you manage to get through to people who are fed up with crawling highways and overstuffed subway trains, then you might be on to something. Emphasis on the results, not the method to pay for them.

Not sure you have a transit election....if the Liberals and the NDP agree on this..it won't force an election and if they can manage their relationship on other matters they can make this government survive for a while longer.

[nfitz]

Are people this short sighted? Put the tap off pole outside, at the bus stop. When you get off, you can go tap off at the stop to deduct the correct fare. If not, you're charged the full price.

Are people this short sighted? What do you do when the machine on the pole is out-of-service? You often see GO machines out-of-service with those plastic hoods over them ... no problem, you just use the next one. But would you install redundancy at each stop? Make people walk to the next stop?

[ShonTron]

Anyway, back on topic of Wynne and Transit, it seems that we finally have ourselves a Transit election. I've been waiting for this for at least 15 years.

Talking about taxes and tolls could potentially be deadly to the Liberals and/or the NDP who likely agree with them. However, if you manage to get through to people who are fed up with crawling highways and overstuffed subway trains, then you might be on to something. Emphasis on the results, not the method to pay for them.

I think that dedicated taxes/tolls can be sold, especially if they were regional in nature. Voters in California and Colorado, for example, voted in favour of new and continued revenue tools for rail transit projects.

I agree that Wynne was not smart sounding like she already believed in a particular revenue stream (tolling) but I'm glad that her selection will raise the transit policy profile just as Metrolinx sounds like it is ready to do some real work.

[ShonTron]

Wynne better tread lightly around the issues of revenue and taxes, or she risks Hudak making this an election label and pitting Toronto against the rest of the province.

A selection of fine comments:

Marilyn, Chas_AM, ANTI UNION TAXPAYER et al. have been hanging around the Toronto Star's web comment sections and post thousands of comments with the same drivel, despite the fact they like to bash the Star's liberal-leaning stance. Go figure.

[gweed123]

Emphasis on the results, not the method to pay for them.

This is the key. Make a barrage of transit announcements at transit stations or construction sites, showing how much better transit is getting.

Unfortunately, even if this government does last until 2014 or 2015, there won't be much new tangible infrastructure to flaunt, other than the Union-Pearson train. Their best bet is to announce some massive GO service boosts, and do as many press conferences at GO stations across the GTHA, as well as at various points along the ECLRT construction site, and highlight how much better these investments are going to make life in the GTHA.

"We're doing all of this. But we need some help in order to make these next step projects, like the Hurontario LRT, electrified GO, and the Downtown Relief Line a reality."

I think one of the best ways to remove the sting of these new revenue tools would be to announce all-day two-way service on pretty much every line, and 30 min service on the Lakeshore lines. It would be a huge step, but you need a gesture of good faith if people are going to swallow these taxes or fees. These types of service boots would be mostly operating costs, with relatively little capital involved in them (especially compared to projects like the DRL).

PS: 4,000 posts. Holy crap, I spend way too much time on here...

[Platform 27]

I think one of the best ways to remove the sting of these new revenue tools would be to announce all-day two-way service on pretty much every line, and 30 min service on the Lakeshore lines. It would be a huge step, but you need a gesture of good faith if people are going to swallow these taxes or fees. These types of service boots would be mostly operating costs, with relatively little capital involved in them (especially compared to projects like the DRL)

All-day two-way GO has been announced, it just isn't a cheap operating cost-only thing. It's going to cost $4.9 billion in capital, which is why Metrolinx says people are going to need to swallow these taxes and fees to pay for it.

[W. K. Lis]

For Kathleen, the transit improvements have to include the GTA and all urban areas (Waterloo, Ottawa, North Bay, etc.), and not just Toronto, in her campaign or government session.