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Thread: PIAZZA concept: Queen-Shuter-Dalhousie-Mutual

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    You'd feel differently if your family owned it I would wager.


  2. #17

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    ^ Not sure what you mean.

    Are you suggesting that if my family owned the land, I'd be committed to protecting the heritage character of a 28 year old parking lot (full city block) rather than banking many, many millions of dollars that would eventually pass on to my children and grandchildren?
    I'm off to my aA meeting but they haven't helped much so far (recovery seems out of reach when you are boxed in).

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    This proposal would do wonders for Toronto - coupled with the proposed new 65 story rental apt at Yonge and Queen - 50 storey Yonge and Rich - 60 Storey Massey Tower. the area would come alive. www.cathedralsquare.ca

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper1953 View Post
    This proposal would do wonders for Toronto - coupled with the proposed new 65 story rental apt at Yonge and Queen - 50 storey Yonge and Rich - 60 Storey Massey Tower. the area would come alive. www.cathedralsquare.ca
    i think what happens at 2 Queen W, 25 Richmond E and 197 Yonge has nothing to do with Mutual/Queen. The area bound by Church, Gerrard, Richmond and Parliament is sort of an island by itself. Nothing that happens outside or near this area actually have a big impact on this island.

    As one can see, there is plenty of interesting proposal on King E, Adelaide E, Front E, or even Richmond, but it all stops at Queen. With the exception of PACE, nobody seems to be slightly interested in developing anything inside this no-no-zone.

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    Yes - you are right so far. The Sellout of PACE is encouraging. Potentail development sites on Shuter and Dundas - as well, the Metropolitan Church on Queen E has requests out for Land Lease Proposals. 200 Dundas E too ! If it weren't for St.Mikes helicopter pad restricting flight paths - more height could happen in the area. The owners of the parking are stubborn and want Top $$ but will sell eventually - they have before. Overtime - Between Ryerson, George Brown and St. Mikes all looking to expand - something will happen....and maybe a Subway stop on Jarvis.

  6. #21

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    This looks interesting. What are the chances of this thing actually getting built anytime in the near future?

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerMaster View Post
    This looks interesting. What are the chances of this thing actually getting built anytime in the near future?
    based on my knowledge of utilitarian Toronto, never.
    We will always build buildings instead of a real great public square. We don't want to be beautiful or great, we just want "things to work"...
    Many say 11 Wellesley W is the last chance for a great green space downtown, is this lot even bigger?

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleu View Post
    based on my knowledge of utilitarian Toronto, never.
    We will always build buildings instead of a real great public square. We don't want to be beautiful or great, we just want "things to work"...
    Many say 11 Wellesley W is the last chance for a great green space downtown, is this lot even bigger?
    I'd estimate that it's almost twice as large as the Wellesley property.

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    Agreed - the lot is huge. A large public square at Mutual - and then improve Moss Park... And wow !

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleu View Post
    based on my knowledge of utilitarian Toronto, never.
    We will always build buildings instead of a real great public square. We don't want to be beautiful or great, we just want "things to work"...
    Many say 11 Wellesley W is the last chance for a great green space downtown, is this lot even bigger?
    Well, yes, Toronto isn't a place that builds public squares, but I would argue that Toronto has a well-developed public space culture that's more based on the use of sidewalks than the use of squares.

    Public squares developed in European cities that don't have grids or long commercial arteries. All streets led to a square, so it was a natural meeting point and place to set up business. The purpose of streets in an old European town, mostly, was to lead you to the next square.

    Toronto's streets are arranged such that they lead, in parallel lines, straight to a long commercial strip. Naturally the strip itself became the focal point of public meetings and business, and that's why people refer to streets rather than neighbourhoods when they refer to areas: "Queen St. West", "the Danforth", etc. I'm not sure a square would be the centre of a community because the street arrangement doesn't let people gravitate to a square naturally.

  11. #26

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    I think that there were a few formal squares early on in Toronto's history, but they've disappeared since. The site of the Metropolitan United Church was once a square, I think, and Victoria Memorial Park once extended to Bathurst and Stewart.

    See this map of Toronto in 1866; http://www.seankheraj.com/wp-content...s-butchers.jpg
    Last edited by jje1000; 2013-Apr-23 at 16:47.

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    Well what will perform better over 20 years. Keeping the land, taking the rent(dividend) and getting the capital appreciation and not paying capital gains, or taking the capital gain and putting the money into, what? More real estate?

  13. #28

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    Toronto has a dire need for public space.

    Nathan Phillips has it's uses but it definatly has a sterility about it. This would be a great addition to the city and would get back to what Toronto does well, brick. I think Toronto has missed the boat on public space including the Waterfront and the areas south of King between University and Bathurst. Those areas had the space for such squares. Waterfront has a very generous amount of greesnpace but there is a real difference between a place to walk and a place to gather.

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