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Thread: Future of Canada's Boundaries

  1. #1

    Default Future of Canada's Boundaries

    As a thought exercise, and to see how well I understand national politics, I have created a map of a possible future of Canada's geopolitical boundaries:


    http://goo.gl/maps/nC25J

    I would see this scenario arising if Quebec were to have a successful sovereignty vote or if one of the provinces wanted to join or merge which would prompt a constitutional re-write. Canada would turn into a federation of more independent states as opposed to a country of provinces.


  2. #2

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    I like how you took half their land away. I am as liberal as they get, but a separation of Quebec is the one thing I would enlist in the army for in a heartbeat. I feel that in the event of Quebec sovereignty, we would have to maintain control of the St. Lawrence seaway, and giving control of it to an independent Quebec would cripple our industrial economy. Interesting map regardless, and certainly worth a debate!
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  3. Default

    Your scenario fails to account for the annexation of Minnesota.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by someMidTowner View Post
    I like how you took half their land away. I am as liberal as they get, but a separation of Quebec is the one thing I would enlist in the army for in a heartbeat. I feel that in the event of Quebec sovereignty, we would have to maintain control of the St. Lawrence seaway, and giving control of it to an independent Quebec would cripple our industrial economy. Interesting map regardless, and certainly worth a debate!
    The idea would be that we would allow Quebec to separate on the condition they joined the Federation of Canada. Canada would allow quebec to set its own laws regarding culture and set it's own economic goals, but would still use Canadian currency. For simplicity's sake, I would think the countries of Canada and Quebec would continue to have a combined military.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by flonicky View Post
    Your scenario fails to account for the annexation of Minnesota.
    Maybe I'm just taking the bait, but what would we want from Minnesota? I mean, we could let them join the party, but I don't see us sending out an invite.

  6. Default

    Dunkalunk: Interesting map and thoughts here concerning Quebec becoming an independent nation...

    I remember that the big question would be how the Maritimes would fare being physically separated
    from the rest of Anglo Canada...And I do agree with MT about control of the St. Lawrence Seaway...

    LI MIKE

  7. #7

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    I like the fact the Southern Ontario and Ottawa each becomes a province level jurisdiction.

    And I am glad that Turks and Caicos become part of Canada eventually. Why did we make the stupid decision to reject them? Does Dominican Republic have the intension of joining canada as well? The new Quebec can have Haiti and voila, we are neighbours again.

  8. Default

    Here is my proposal
    It is the best in my opinion in terms of (completing) balanced beauty of the map of Canada. This map also considers local needs and identity when creating a new province/ territory of Canada.

    1) Nunavik finally becomes 4th Territory of Canada like Nunavut, NWT, and Yukon.
    2) North Ontario becomes 11th Province of Canada - Capital city - Thunder Bay or Nipiogon
    3) Labrador becomes 5th Territory of Canada.
    4) Ottawa, Gatineau, and part of surrounding regions form National Capital Territory- an independent municipality doesn't belong to any province.

    External Wish list
    5) Canada becomes a republic (which means everything including democracy stays the same but whose Head of State is the leader of a party supported and elected by the People of Canada). AND France gives Saint Pierre and Miquelon as a present.
    6) America gives Point Roberts (southern tip of Fraser lowland in BC) to Canada for the same or some other reason.


    http://s2.postimage.org/lq8dehnax/CANADA_in_2020.jpg
    Last edited by PUTOTO; 2013-Jan-25 at 23:10.

  9. #9

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    Newfoundland and Labrador will never agree to a split. Quebec wouldn't agree to splitting off any of its land (Gatineau for a NCT) or its far north.

    There's a potential case for Northern Ontario, but your boundary is very arbitrary. The whole north - all the way from North Bay to Kenora would fit better, and there's a lot of resentment in Northeastern Ontario over ONTC, parks closures, and other slights.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ShonTron View Post
    Newfoundland and Labrador will never agree to a split. Quebec wouldn't agree to splitting off any of its land (Gatineau for a NCT) or its far north.

    There's a potential case for Northern Ontario, but your boundary is very arbitrary. The whole north - all the way from North Bay to Kenora would fit better, and there's a lot of resentment in Northeastern Ontario over ONTC, parks closures, and other slights.
    Labrador and Newfoundland are not even connected by land, and to me it looked like they could become very interesting regions with slightly different characters and landscapes in Canada. But I guess Labrador should be on its own as a great land of Labradorian only after Quebec's separatism and the ambition of claiming southern part of Labrador as part of Quebec is relinquished.

    Nunavik, currently in northern Quebec, has more than 90% of its population as Innuits. It was surprising how media almost reported nothing about it when it happened back then, but Nunavik have already had a referendum in 2011 to create self-governing territory whose borderlines shown on the map(above). Majority of Nunavik people were asked to vote No as the referendum date came closer because of some important reasons. I believe the condition that clearly says it will become "a territory within the province of Quebec" was not what they're ultimately looking for when Nunavut was able to have their own government with the recognized status of "Territory" in the country. Also, if I must say, Nunavik is strongly against separation of Quebec from Canada. Federal government could have planned/informed them to stay in Quebec, for now.

    Northern Ontario- I'm not a politician nor an expert on the domestic issue there except that there are also some group of native people in north west region of Ontario. North Ontario with that border is going to have the same diagonal width as Manitoba. It is very proportional in that way from British Columbia all the way to North Ontario, thus looks balanced and beautiful. This work has been already done when you see current map of Canada west of Ontario. I'm merely perfecting or completing the art of it. The population of Northern Ontario with that borderline will have population of approx. 500,000. - If I'm the president/prime minister of Canada, the creation of the Province of North Ontario should be accompanied by a plan to make its population reach 1 mil. or similar to the one of Manitoba.
    In terms of landmass, the remaining Ontario, with that lightning shape, will still have the access to Hudson Bay(James Bay) and will not be significantly smaller than Quebec minus Nunavik.

    Lastly, the National Capital Region - It is biased when the capital city of the federation belongs to 1 of the many provinces in the country. The capital of a large federation like Canada, US, Australia should have a dedicated Capital Territory which is neutral and strong. You said the regions on Quebec side will not agree on this. Well, tell them they won't be obligated to pay the notorious provincial taxes any more, instead they will get more benefits as citizens of the National Capital Region.

    Again, my main focus on creation of new provinces and territories was to make Canada's (political) map make more sense and look balanced. And don't say "never". Even the Greater Montreal Region could become a new province of Canada to resurrect itself from being a victim of Quebec's provincial politics for so long.
    Last edited by PUTOTO; 2013-Jan-30 at 00:10.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUTOTO View Post
    5) Canada becomes a republic (which means everything including democracy stays the same but whose Head of State is the leader of a party supported and elected by the People of Canada). AND France gives Saint Pierre and Miquelon as a present.
    6) America gives Point Roberts (southern tip of Fraser lowland in BC) to Canada for the same or some other reason.
    • Saint Pierre and Miquelon could (fairly) easily be part of Quebec instead of their own province.
    • Point Roberts is a huge border mistake and I wonder if Canada would ever make the offer to simply buy it from the US?
    • Northern Maine also bothers me. It's too bad some of that isn't Canada, but I believe it has something to do with the way the rivers flow. If they flow north, Canada got it, if they flowed south, the US got it.

  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gweed123 View Post
    That's true. Northern Ontario has the whole rest of the country to connect to. Northern Quebec just has Southern Quebec, and Newfoundland & Labrador (whose main connection is via Nova Scotia and New Brunswick).

    The idea of "Northern Separation" is an interesting one. Theoretically Northern Ontario could then become a territory, and the twinning of Highway 17 could become a Federal project, seeing as how it is of more importance to the nation than it is to Ontario. Obviously there would be many more reasons than that to separate, I'm just illustrating one. FWIW, I think Northern Quebec should do the same thing.

    Subdividing northern territory is hardly a new phenomenon. The Northwest Territories have been divided and re-divided many times throughout its history. In fact, letting Northern Ontario separate from Ontario would in essence just be reforming a large chunk of the district of Keewatin, which used to comprise parts of what are now Ontario, Manitoba, and the Northwest Territories, but was abolished when Ontario and Manitoba took their current borders.
    Perhaps a "Hudson" region comprising of Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge_Heights View Post
    Perhaps a "Hudson" region comprising of Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec?
    You mean Rupert's Land?


  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by gweed123 View Post
    The idea of "Northern Separation" is an interesting one. Theoretically Northern Ontario could then become a territory, and the twinning of Highway 17 could become a Federal project, seeing as how it is of more importance to the nation than it is to Ontario. Obviously there would be many more reasons than that to separate, I'm just illustrating one. FWIW, I think Northern Quebec should do the same thing.
    I couldn't see it becoming a territory. It would easily qualify as a province, and it wouldn't even be the smallest one. It's actually pretty fascinating how sparsely settled the territories are. The Northwest Territories is the biggest and only 40,000 people live there. Timmins alone is bigger than that.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge_Heights View Post
    Perhaps a "Hudson" region comprising of Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec?
    Interesting idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterF View Post
    I couldn't see it becoming a territory. It would easily qualify as a province, and it wouldn't even be the smallest one. It's actually pretty fascinating how sparsely settled the territories are. The Northwest Territories is the biggest and only 40,000 people live there. Timmins alone is bigger than that.
    A Province would certainly work too. I would think everything from Nippissing District northward. It wouldn't leave Ontario with much, but that's where the majority of the population is.
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