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Transit and Condos

Why all these new Condos if we don't have the proper transit for them? How can we be adding more people downtown if we don't have the transportation infrastructure for it.

People have to move somewhere. The city is growing. If we dump these new residents into the suburbs our road networks cant absorb them either. The roads are at near capacity. So even though we dont have the transit the reality is at least if they are close enough downtown they may be able to walk to work. It may look like chaos but it would be far worse if the new residents were forced deep into the suburbs.
 
Great point sixrings, I wish the government response for building subways/LRT was quicker but we elected someone promising to freeze taxes. :rolleyes:
 
People have to move somewhere. The city is growing. If we dump these new residents into the suburbs our road networks cant absorb them either. The roads are at near capacity. So even though we dont have the transit the reality is at least if they are close enough downtown they may be able to walk to work. It may look like chaos but it would be far worse if the new residents were forced deep into the suburbs.

Thanks. I just wish the subway or light rail would catch up already.
 
Why all these new Condos if we don't have the proper transit for them? How can we be adding more people downtown if we don't have the transportation infrastructure for it.

I am always stunned by such a question.
Without living downtown, do you think these people will NOT need transportation infrastructure? Why do you talk as if the downtown condos created these people from thin air?? Before moving downtown, these people live in various pockets of Toronto/GTA, mostly like farther from work, and by moving downtown, they actually use transit less.

Why do people keep assuming more downtown condos will put a strain on public transit? Where is the logic here?? Are they assuming condo buyers all live in China before moving to downtown?
 
Because there already is a strain on public transit. I've lived in the downtown for the past 20 years and have a noticed a condiserable decline. Urbanization is great but without the proper infrastructure it is a disaster in the making. I think any condo developer who wants to build along the Yonge/University or Bloor Subway Line should be subject to special tax levy that is dedicated to funding the building of a downtown relief line (as the first priority) and future subway/transit expansion of other lines. Developers can afford it they are making a killing in the current market and we are just giving our city a way for free.
 
Because there already is a strain on public transit. I've lived in the downtown for the past 20 years and have a noticed a condiserable decline. Urbanization is great but without the proper infrastructure it is a disaster in the making. I think any condo developer who wants to build along the Yonge/University or Bloor Subway Line should be subject to special tax levy that is dedicated to funding the building of a downtown relief line (as the first priority) and future subway/transit expansion of other lines. Developers can afford it they are making a killing in the current market and we are just giving our city a way for free.

Your argument makes no sense. These added condos put extra strain on transit only if you assume those people don't use transit before moving to condos. How do you think these people get around before moving to the new condos, flying?

Let me say that again, condo condos don't add strain on public transit. Whoever moved to these condos end up using transit less because by living downtown, one is closer to amenities and therefore their need to take transit/drive cars is less. I just don't understand this "don't build condos in downtown any more because our transit is congested enough" argument. It makes zero sense. downtowners are more likely to walk or bike to their destination.
 
It's not the condos going up that's causing the strain on public transit. Rather it's the continually increasing population of Toronto that's causing the strain on public transit. People don't like how long it takes them to commute to work from the 'burbs by car so they move into condos in or near the core. Many of them will still have to take transit to work though, even if it's not as far as taking transit in from North York. Then there are those like myself who choose to live in a condo dt because they like the lifestyle but who actually work in the 'burbs.

Either way, build of any kind represents an increased strain on our transit infrastructure, and it would be pretty much impossible to purposefully stop the city from growing.
 
Condos do strain the transit system. Many people who would otherwise be living in suburbs and driving cars are living in condos and taking transit. Even if most of the condo residents already took transit before moving downtown, living downtown strains downtown transit routes even if freeing up capacity on suburban routes. As far as urban vitality goes, these are good problems to have because the city is growing.

Unfortunately, Toronto has a way of only improving transit when things start to come to a breaking point. We didn't build the Yonge subway proactively to keep up the quality of our system in anticipation of future demand; we built the subway when every streetcar was packed with people and crawling along its route: when the system started to decline because of the strain of ridership. The way I see it, the only way we'll get better transit infrastructure is as we approach the breaking point when the situation becomes desperate and the service declines. There are people who even see this uncomfortable situation as normal, that rational transit expansion follows this pattern: badly overcrowded buses, badly overcrowded light rail, badly overcrowded subway, new subway line, and so on. It's no wonder our subway network is so small. The breaking point takes a long time to hit.
 
Unfortunately, Toronto has a way of only improving transit when things start to come to a breaking point. We didn't build the Yonge subway proactively to keep up the quality of our system in anticipation of future demand; we built the subway when every streetcar was packed with people and crawling along its route: when the system started to decline because of the strain of ridership. The way I see it, the only way we'll get better transit infrastructure is as we approach the breaking point when the situation becomes desperate and the service declines. There are people who even see this uncomfortable situation as normal, that rational transit expansion follows this pattern: badly overcrowded buses, badly overcrowded light rail, badly overcrowded subway, new subway line, and so on. It's no wonder our subway network is so small. The breaking point takes a long time to hit.

Agree, This is why I always think "don't build so many condos downtown because we don't have enough infrastructure" kind of argument is pretty silly. Our city will never build more to prepare for the increasing density. It only builds when there is no other choice.

I hope the overcrowding at Yonge/Bloor will make impossible for people to get to downtown during rush hour soon, and I hope the gardiner will cause some major danger so that the city will have no choice but to close it entirely soon.

I thought the history taught this already but apparently people are still too naive to realize that.
 
It would be great if they found money to bury the Gardiner 4km from Dufferin to Bay, the Big Dig is not much longer and only cost Boston $24 billion...
 
It would be great if they found money to bury the Gardiner 4km from Dufferin to Bay, the Big Dig is not much longer and only cost Boston $24 billion...

I suspect the only way they'll 'find' the money is if they screw up the courage to use, in the contemporary parlance, new revenue tools - highway and core congestion tolls, probably. Slowly but surely politicians are warming up to that fact, if only because the electorate has become exasperated by Toronto's traffic and transit woes and is increasingly serious about addressing them in a practical and expedient manner.

Keeping the Gardiner up is a losing proposition. It has to be replaced by a tunnel or something else - but pouring zillions more dollars into propping it up (after 60 years of weather and traffic abuse) strikes me as lousy bang for the buck.
 
How much does the BIG DIG cost? How much would building a complete DRL cost? Personally I think they should bite the bullet and build the complete DRL ASAP and take down the Gardiner before it falls down on its own...
 
How much does the BIG DIG cost? How much would building a complete DRL cost? Personally I think they should bite the bullet and build the complete DRL ASAP and take down the Gardiner before it falls down on its own...

Even the city of Beverly Hills budged allowing the purple line to run just underneath it to Century City and Santa Monica, and they moved pretty quickly. Toronto's failure in adding any rapid transit for so many years is simply amazing. Los Angeles, guys, Los Angeles!
Yeah, let's do more debate, consultation, reports and EA studies on the DRL!
 

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