TCHC and Their Cabbagetown Heritage Home Quandary

From http://www.thestar.com/business/art...homes-disintegrating-and-activists-blame-tchc

It is really hard to say what will become of this situation. While understanding the need to "properly" maintain these historical buildings with appropriate era workmanship and materials, when will this requirement become unreasonable?

Considering the current financial bind that the TCHC is in, odds are these houses will be condemned long before any work will be done.

They really should sell them - there is no win for anyone to let them become even more dilapidated. The value of the property decreases the longer it's kept in that state; it's sub-standard housing for the tenants and quite franky, there is stigma attached to living in a house in such an easily identifiable state, which basically negates the argument that it "integrates" the tenants.

I wonder how much space there is behind some of these properties - maybe they can sever them if possible?

AoD

I know the Cabbagetown Heritage Conservation District Committee has not lobbied for the Toronto Community Housing Corp to sell off any of their historic properties but that is really what they should be doing, not just asking the TCHC to prioritize their repair list. The amount of money gained from the sale of these properties (particularly in this market) combined with the amount of money saved by not having to repair these dilapidated properties can buy new apartments, repair old ones, upgrade existing buildings, etc. in a much more efficient manner.

James said:

I know the Cabbagetown Heritage Conservation District Committee has not lobbied for the Toronto Community Housing Corp to sell off any of their historic properties but that is really what they should be doing, not just asking the TCHC to prioritize their repair list.

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Could there be some strategy at work here? I think if they get a formal rejection of the request to prioritize the repairs, which I bet they will due to cost, then they are in a much stronger position to demand a sale as they can point out that there is no way the houses will be fixed in time to prevent permanent damage.

A potential heritage as Trojan Horse scenario also comes to mind as well. I think the committee need to sit down with TCHC and figure out what's the best way forward.

AoD

Jonny5 said:

Could there be some strategy at work here? I think if they get a formal rejection of the request to prioritize the repairs, which I bet they will due to cost, then they are in a much stronger position to demand a sale as they can point out that there is no way the houses will be fixed in time to prevent permanent damage.

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Agreed. I hope the committee is indeed building up a case here. At the end of the day, these properties would be best utilized in the private market.

This is an issue that I have been concerned about for some time ( I discussed this in the Cabbagetown thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/5313-Cabbagetown/page39 ).

A year ago when TCHC was contemplating selling off properties I emailed the Mayors office, the local Councillor, Councillors on the TCHC board and the BIA office suggesting that these designated Historic properties be the first to be put up for sale. I did not receive a reply from any of them.

I was surprised when I first discovered that these heritage properties , which include Victorian Mansions, were owned by the city. I assumed that they were privately owned since they were in such poor condition and are being operated as rooming houses.

TCHC cannot afford to restore these properties back to pristine condition nor should they. Many of the tenants have substance abuse problems and I doubt if they have any appreciation for the historic value of their surroundings. It's just a terrible waste all around!

The only solution is to put these properties on the market. Not only would this bring in Millions in needed cash we would be able to save these historic buildings and improve Cabbagetown in the process.

There are so many compelling reasons to sell these properties and yet City Hall has failed to act?

^ Amen.

they should use the estimated $30+ million from the sale of the 50 TCHC homes in Cabbagetown to build another tower (mid-rise) in Regent Park (or anywhere for that matter) and have 120+ brand new units with substantially lower maintenance costs going forward than upkeep these heritage victorians.

Response from the TCHC, from the Star:

http://www.thestar.com/business/art...-t-merit-higher-priority-for-repairs-tchc-ceo

Peepers:

TCHC cannot afford to restore these properties back to pristine condition nor should they. Many of the tenants have substance abuse problems and I doubt if they have any appreciation for the historic value of their surroundings. It's just a terrible waste all around!

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If they own it, then it is their responsiblity to do so. As to the second point - how did you know a) that "many" have substance abuse problems and b) therefore they don't have any appreciation for historic values of their surroundings?

AoD

This reminds me of the current plan to sell of 675 (or thereabouts) TCHC standalone houses. The vote comes to council in September, which is really not so far away.

Do we know the addresses of the 50 Cabbagetown houses, specifically, the group has issue with? And do they overlap with this list of the 675 proposed for sale:

http://www.torontohousing.ca/webfm_send/8000

I may have answered my own question. Just 4 Ward 28 homes appear in the list of 675, so the 50 Cabbagetown properties must be separate.

The 4 from http://www.torontohousing.ca/webfm_send/8000 :

28 117 A Seaton St. 2.5 - Storey Detached House Single Fam. 1
28 376 Ontario St. 2.5-Storey Row House Single Fam. 1
28 40 Trefann St. 3 - Storey Row House - Single Fam. 1
28 42 Geneva Ave. 2-Storey Row House Single Fam

AlvinofDiaspar said:

Response from the TCHC, from the Star:

http://www.thestar.com/business/art...-t-merit-higher-priority-for-repairs-tchc-ceo

Peepers:



If they own it, then it is their responsiblity to do so. As to the second point - how did you know a) that "many" have substance abuse problems and b) therefore they don't have any appreciation for historic values of their surroundings?

AoD

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a) I have seen enough of the tenants over the years to form this opinion. Just today, for example, there was a bunch of tenants from the Victorian row-houses beside the liquor store consuming alcohol in their courtyard and this was before noon!

b) I make this statement based on how they appear to maintain the inside of the building which is not good by the looks of it, e.g. bed-sheets on the windows, garbage in front of windows, etc.

The above issues are beside the point. Restoring these homes will take a huge investment and will require the services of contractors that specialize in heritage restoration. There is no way that TCHC could justify such an expenditure when they have a $750 Million dollar backlog of repairs to carry out across the city.

I agree the owners have a responsibility to maintain the buildings, if they cannot afford to do so they should sell them off which brings up a good issue. Why are so many of the Heritage buildings (in private hands) on Parliament and Carlton in such poor shape? Why has the city allowed the private landlords to get away with this in a Heritage district?

The City offers grants to restore heritage properties when they're privately owned, so I don't see why they can't do the same for these Cabbagetown properties. I wonder if the people on the heritage conservation district committee have suggested such an approach to the TCHC?

Slightly off-topic but does anyone know whether property taxes are any different for a heritage property as compared to a physically equivalent property in the same neighborhood that has not been deemed a heritage property?