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Policing Attitudes

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bobbob911

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Just curious - if Toronto cops don't need to be the highest paid in Canada, when which city's cops should be?
 
bobbob911 said:
Just curious - if Toronto cops don't need to be the highest paid in Canada, when which city's cops should be?
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Perhaps those cities with much higher violent crime rates, which is true of most other large cities in Canada (for example, the violent crime severity index in Regina was over twice that of Toronto in 2010).
 
Tulse said:
Perhaps those cities with much higher violent crime rates, which is true of most other large cities in Canada (for example, the violent crime severity index in Regina was over twice that of Toronto in 2010).
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I wouldn't disagree with you outright - but policing is more than just the homicide unit. To me it's a pretty valid assumption that the largest city is going to have the biggest challenges with policing, even if our murder rate per capita fares very well.
 
freshcutgrass said:
he he....but you just reiterated what I said. You want the size of government and what they spend tax dollars on to conform to your personal beliefs.
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There are plenty of social issues that have no meaningful economic impact (or where the economic impact is not a factor in the policy decisions) - same sex marriage/rights, abortion, drug legalization etc etc
 
^Maybe one of the more dangerous cities. Or a remote community, where cost of living is higher. What about tying pay to performance, e.g. bonuses for (imaginary) years in which police enforce the laws against other police. (j/k about that last one; I'm a dreamer but not a technicolour dreamer)
 
That's a good point - Do Toronto police make more salary than police in Iqaliut or Yellowknife? ie remote north where salaries are higher to attract people and cover the higher cost of living
 
bobbob911 said:
Just curious - if Toronto cops don't need to be the highest paid in Canada, when which city's cops should be?
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We can say this about every public service position. For example, if Toronto Planners don't need to be the highest paid in Canada, then which city's planners should be?

Why were the cops given a special deal while the rest of the unions were stomped on?
 
I agree with you - just cost of living wise Toronto or Vancouver should generally offer the highest salaries in any profession, unless there is a specific reason otherwise.

"Stomped on" is a bit dramatic - and wages were not a point of contention for either negotiation.
 
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jn_12 said:
We can say this about every public service position. For example, if Toronto Planners don't need to be the highest paid in Canada, then which city's planners should be?

Why were the cops given a special deal while the rest of the unions were stomped on?
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The reason why cops get a special deal is very simple. Politicians (and most of the media) are completely intimidated by the Police and the powers that they wield. They are afraid if they go against the police the police will retaliate against them one way or another.

The last Police Board Chair to stand up to the cops was Susan Eng. In retaliation - Julian Fantino ordered wiretaps of Engs phone and private investigations into Eng's associates in an attempt to dig up dirt on her.

I have no doubt that Fantino's protege' Bill Blair learned well the art of intimidation - what other explanation can there be for Blair keeping his job after publicly going against the Mayor (over the budget) and his screw-ups during the G20 that have not only cost the city $Millions but have resulted in most of the public losing trust in the police.

We are living in a police state. The police are out of control and can literally get away with murder :mad:
 
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Peepers said:
Bill Blair's screw-ups during the G20 that have not only cost the city millions but have resulted in most of the public losing trust in the police. We are living in a police state. :mad:
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Do you really believe that?

Do you honestly believe the majority of people in this city are losing trust in the police?

Do you really believe we live in a police state? Do you know what a true police state looks like?

The angriest most Torontonians ever get at police is when they get a speeding ticket.

Get a grip.
 
hawc said:
Do you honestly believe the majority of people in this city are losing trust in the police?
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I don't think many trusted the police in the first place. And many are losing their trust in the police, with regular reports of unnecessary shootings and especially the reports recently of police beating people:
in-300-angela-turvey.jpg
 
hawc:

Since when does what the majority of people "believe" has anything to do with the truth of pretty blatant irregularities in actions on the part of the police, re: use of force, corruption, etc?

AoD
 
Peepers said:
The reason why cops get a special deal is very simple. Politicians (and most of the media) are completely intimidated by the Police and the powers that they wield. They are afraid if they go against the police the police will retaliate against them one way or another.

The last Police Board Chair to stand up to the cops was Susan Eng. In retaliation - Julian Fantino ordered wiretaps of Engs phone and private investigations into Eng's associates in an attempt to dig up dirt on her.
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You're forgetting poor Alan Heisey, who didn't even get the chance to stand up to the police:

...elected chair of the Toronto Police Services Board in 2004...A week after becoming chair, Heisey was the target of a leaked internal police memo which depicted him as sympathetic to child pornographers. Heisey refused to step down as Chair and was subsequently cleared by Justice Sydney Robins of the Ontario Court of Appeal of any wrongdoing in a ruling that found he was the target of a smear campaign...In June 2004, he announced that he would not be seeking a renewal from the city of his appointment as a board member meaning that he would also end his term as chair in September 2004, nine months after winning the position.
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Justice Robins thought it appropriate to provide some interesting commentary on the smear campaign:

He said it was not his mandate to determine who leaked the memo of the conversation which had been prepared by Detective Sergeant Paul Gillespie, then passed on to Chief Fantino, who passed it on to Norm Gardner, but he said: "The leak of the confidential police memo was manifestly calculated to damage Mr. Heisey's reputation and undermine, if not destroy, his ability to continue as chair of the .. Board." Given the division Chief Fantino often makes between operational matters and other things, it is unclear why he passed this memo on to the chair of the Board.

Robins has also brought a very worrisome practice to light. He notes: "It appears that police officers are under a duty to report any concerns they may have about the conduct or statements of Board members or others, and those concerns are to be 'catalogued and entered into the system' so as to have a 'history and notation' of the matter." As if that weren't enough, Robins also notes that no protocols or procedures control this procedure.
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