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Thread: OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markham VIP View Post
    Why can't you see two casinos in the GTA?
    The reports are that a monster casino resort on the waterfront would only be 5%-10% casino. How much of that space will be taken up with tourists? Can all the residents of the GTA go play there every saturday night too? The GTA is one of the largest markets in North America, there is no question that two casinos can both co-exist and be successful. I can envision the resort casino in Toronto catering more to the downtown Toronto tourist industry (especially the resort itself), and the casino in Markham catering more the actual residents of the GTA.

    This casino is meant for the residents of the GTA....not Toronto tourism.
    The OLG's border casinos have seen a decline in revenues mainly due to the increased competition from casinos along American border cities.
    The purpose of the new modernization strategy of the OLG is not to increase Toronto tourism....it is to bring the casinos closer to the people who play them (i.e the residents of the GTA).
    It is absolutely possible for the GTA to have two casinos.
    I think Markham will get this one, and Toronto should purse it's monster resort casino in a smart way. Take your time and do it right. Have all the referendums and studies that you want to ensure that the best location is chosen. Also, make sure you iron out a good deal with the American investors and don't let them turn you into suckers.
    What about windsor??/


  2. #572

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdparker View Post
    Just curious... How many of this proposed project's opponents have been to Vegas and seen the various MGM properties in person? Better yet, how many have been to Vegas in the last few years and walked through newer (and quite stunning) complexes like Aria and the new Wynn Resort? This is not a rhetorical question, I'd honestly like to know...
    Vegas is one of the few places in the (western?) world that qualifies as a one-of-a-kind destination. What does it or any of it's individual casinos have to do with Toronto and it's potential casino? It'd be as though we were building Wonderland from scratch and using Disney World as a comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jn_12 View Post
    Vegas is one of the few places in the (western?) world that qualifies as a one-of-a-kind destination. What does it or any of it's individual casinos have to do with Toronto and it's potential casino? It'd be as though we were building Wonderland from scratch and using Disney World as a comparison.
    No one is advocating for, or expecting a "Vegas North" to spring up in the GTA... I'm simply asking if you and others have been inside specific resorts like Aria... A 6 Billion dollar Aria-esque resort in Toronto would be an amazing addition IMO...
    Last edited by mdparker; 2012-Apr-25 at 01:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdparker View Post
    No one is advocating for, or expecting a "Vegas North" to spring up in the GTA... I'm simply asking if you and others have been inside specific resorts like Aria... A 6 Billion dollar Aria-esque resort in Toronto would be an amazing addition IMO...
    Hahaha i agree, but many people here it Toronto would rather just have the 60 dollar brothels

  5. Default

    Just curious... How many of this proposed project's opponents have been to Vegas and seen the various MGM properties in person? Better yet, how many have been to Vegas in the last few years and walked through newer (and quite stunning) complexes like Aria and the new Wynn Resort? This is not a rhetorical question, I'd honestly like to know...
    I have.

    No one is advocating for, or expecting a "Vegas North" to spring up in the GTA... I'm simply asking if you and others have been inside specific resorts like Aria... A 6 Billion dollar Aria-esque resort in Toronto would be an amazing addition IMO...
    There really are two issues here. One, is there any prospect that we would get something like Aria/Cityplace? And two, would that be a good thing?

    On the first point, I am highly skeptical. MGM's announcement was $2 to 6 billion. Fallsview cost $1 billion. If MGM puts in something on the low end, will it be twice as good as Fallsview? Or just twice as big? I have no confidence that our provincial government, currently in a minority and facing a big deficit, will hold MGM or any other developer to task to get something of the quality of Aria/Cityplace. And I have no confidence in our current City administration to fill the gap. While Cityplace is striking, MGM's resorts outside of Vegas are not exactly architectural wonders. Happy to be proved wrong on this, but I think it is wrong to support a casino project in the abstract on a key piece of land like the Ex/OP.

    On the second point, and aside from its striking appearance, Cityplace is a big enclosed complex, mostly back from the main street, with little to no streetfront retail, a large mall with stores I don't shop in (and most people can't afford to), and the usual casino/Cirque show/Jean Georges et al restaurants/hotel as everywhere else in Vegas. It also has two largely vacant condo towers. If put in Toronto, we could expect that the condos would sell. Everything was nice, I suppose, but I wasn't inclined to spend a lot of time there. At least some of the other resorts have Las Vegas novelties that are entertaining on your first visit, like the gorgeous fountain at Bellagio. I didn't care for the lighting in the casino, I preferred playing my blackjack in other places.

    Of course, much of this is subjective, what I disagree with is putting a self-contained casino-entertainment complex on Ex/OP lands. A few posters have said that whatever is built should be urban form. I agree with this, and could even support a casino project that supplemented what is already at the Ex, led to improvements in landscaping and brought streetlife in place of the parking lots, perhaps with a grand square with a large Bellagio-like fountain. Ideally this project would also lead to an enhanced OP with a new and better waterpark, more shows at Amphitheatre, etc.; the building of a Lakeshore LRT to connect the big numbers of people that will be at Humber Shores; an improved bike/jogging path to connect the huge numbers of people who use the current one on the Western Beaches with Harbourfront and downtown. Others will have different pipe dreams. But when you're dealing with a company like MGM (whose business model is premised on suckering people) and our current provincial and city governments, I predict something crappy. Even if it costs $4 billion.

  6. #576

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdparker View Post
    No one is advocating for, or expecting a "Vegas North" to spring up in the GTA... I'm simply asking if you and others have been inside specific resorts like Aria... A 6 Billion dollar Aria-esque resort in Toronto would be an amazing addition IMO...
    You sort of missed my point. Despite the price tag that MGM is throwing around, no one would invest that type of money in a casino in Toronto (I'm sure they're attaching a big number to gain attention and to put pressure on politicians). You can do it in Vegas because it's Vegas, and because you need to commit billion(s) to a development if you want to keep up with the big boys, but there's no way they or anyone would invest that kind of money in a casino development in Toronto that might never recoup its cost or could even outright fail.

    And no I haven't been to Vegas. It doesn't interest me in the slightest.
    Last edited by jn_12; 2012-Apr-25 at 11:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jn_12 View Post
    You sort of missed my point. Despite the price tag that MGM is throwing around, no one would invest that type of money in a casino in Toronto (I'm sure they're attaching a big number to gain attention and to put pressure on politicians). You can do it in Vegas because it's Vegas, and because you need to commit billion(s) to a development if you want to keep up with the big boys, but there's no way they or anyone would invest that kind of money in a casino development in Toronto that might never recoup its cost or could even outright fail. And no I haven't been to Vegas. It doesn't interest me in the slightest.
    Isn't that, sorta, the business they are in? Isn't the risk with any of their developments that it won't do as well as expected? Don't all businesses face that issue (to some degree)? It was they that came up with the idea of a "resort" that was only 5 or 10% (I forget and am too lazy to check) about gambling with the rest being hotel(s), retail, condos, etc. They actually said that if all the province wanted was a simple casino at woodbine they weren't interested and the province did not need them for that.

    So they are just, what, lying?

    The casino debate is starting to remind me of the various Olympic debates. Those that are "for" like to point to the potential benefits and cite examples were no significant money was not lost...as if that is the only way it would happen in Toronto and happily point out why "Montreal" could not happen here. Those that are "against" like to point to Montreal as if it were the only Olympics ever and are certain that this is the only "model" we would see here.

    Surely, the answer is that no other city's experience can be exactly replicated here and that the answer is to look at other places not as some exercise in "municipal cloning" but, rather, in an effort to find "best practices" in order to develop a "Toronto model" that works in the Toronto context.

    Or are we just so wrapped up in (depending on your outlook) our own superiority/inferiority complex that we can only envision the extremes.

    P.S. not a gambler here....but have enjoyed a few visits to vegas....not a bad experience....good restos....lots of people out walking the streets...obviously, some unique entertainment and a bit of a surreal vacation spot. For those that think casinos kill pedestrian activity....Vegas proves that wrong...the strip (no not the far extreme south end where MGM is) is one of the most walked main "drags" I have ever seen. Again, though, that is because people are walking between hotels/casinos and I am not suggesting that this is how it would work in Toronto as one casino does not create that....but if the one casino was part of a multi-activitiy/"destination" enterainment area....perhaps.

  8. Default Toronto Needs A Casino! We need the millions in revenue and thousands of jobs

    toronto needs the casino. it will bring millions in revenue and provide thousands of jobs. Wish people would wake up!!! There is a video regarding this topic, check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lJgWY

  9. #579
    gabe Guest

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    I have been Detroit all week. The 3 casinos they have are PACKED even on Monday's and Tuesday nights at at midnight! Not to sound prejudice or anything but the high roller area's were packed with Asians. With the size of Toronto's Asian population the Toronto Casino would need a large high roller area!!

  10. #580
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    Asians eh ? Sounds like Markham might be a good choice after all
    If I had a penny for every time someone asked me why I was looking upů

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    Anyone who has two eyes and a brain can see all the asians at casinos. Everyone in Markham can see the bus loads that leave here every weekend to go to Rama/Windsor/Niagara.....
    When the President of OLG says he wants to bring a casino closer to the people who play them....what does he mean by that? Does he have two eyes and a brain? Can he put two-and-two together and come up with the perfect location for a new GTA casino?

    I guess we will just have to wait and see..............

  12. #582
    gabe Guest

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    I would love to see a casino in Markham. Bus loads of people leave from the Guelph, K-W area to go to Rama and Niagara casinos every day. Markham is that much closer, they could have multiple casino buses running from the K-W region to Markham.

  13. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkyd77 View Post
    toronto needs the casino. it will bring millions in revenue and provide thousands of jobs. Wish people would wake up!!! There is a video regarding this topic, check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lJgWY
    Your link isn't working. But I'm not surprised, since you seem kind of dumb.

  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalSeven View Post
    Your link isn't working. But I'm not surprised, since you seem kind of dumb.
    I could not get it to work but assumed it was I that was dumb! "Memo to self, buy an ego!"

  15. #585

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    Checking into Vegas a bit, it looks like gambling is not all peaches and cream. Why is Vegas the suicide capital of America?
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=98042717
    Last edited by Torontovibe; 2012-Apr-28 at 15:12.

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