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We need to integrate Durham more into the GTA!

denfromoakvillemilton

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Whenever people in general talk about the GTA, its always Mississauga this, Vaughan that, Markham this, Burlington that, Newmarket this. We need to bring Clarington and Port Perry closer to Toronto. It feels like they are not part of the GTA when they clearly are.
How do we do that?
 
Durham (and York for that matter) are just far too big geographically compared to, say, Peel or Halton. It's been my impression that rural Durham (Clarington, Scugog, and Brock) feels, both culturally and economically, more Kawarthas/Central Ontario than GTA. As for the suburban southwest of the region, out of the three directions the GTA sprawls out into, the East is the least populated. The entire population of Durham could fit into Mississauga with room to spare. It also suffers from the fact that Durham is, geographically speaking, the least connected GTA region. Remember, once you get into the far East of Scarborough, Lawrence is right by the lake's shore, which, combined with the Rouge Valley, means that few of Toronto's main arterials penetrate into Pickering (compare to Mississauga, Vaughan, Markham, etc.). Additionally, Durham's population is concentrated along the 401/Lakeshore East corridor with few other routes into the city, and little of the North-South depth that characterizes the more connected Western GTA.

Oshawa doesn't really fit into the Toronto suburb mould. It's probably the most self-contained city in the traditional GTA, comparable to Hamilton moreso than, say, Vaughan or Oakville.

I don't really see the point in integrating Durham more into the GTA. Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, and suburban Oshawa are already thoroughly and unmistakeably GTA. They all have all-day GO train service (unlike Brampton, Markham, etc.), and demographically-speaking, are far more similar to other GTA municipalities than to the surrounding rural hinterland. Leave the small towns and farmland alone.
 
i think the biggest problem is that these areas developed north of the 401 versus south. if these communities were built around the go line they wouldnt have felt so much like they are in the middle of nowhere. as it is though it feels like you must drive to these areas or you take a loooong train ride only to be met by a crummy bus ride.

btw durams attempt to intergrate itselfwith the gta is by constantly advocating for express lanes all the way to oshawa. maybe they should have considered city centres as a better attempt.
 
Durham (and York for that matter) are just far too big geographically compared to, say, Peel or Halton. It's been my impression that rural Durham (Clarington, Scugog, and Brock) feels, both culturally and economically, more Kawarthas/Central Ontario than GTA. As for the suburban southwest of the region, out of the three directions the GTA sprawls out into, the East is the least populated. The entire population of Durham could fit into Mississauga with room to spare. It also suffers from the fact that Durham is, geographically speaking, the least connected GTA region. Remember, once you get into the far East of Scarborough, Lawrence is right by the lake's shore, which, combined with the Rouge Valley, means that few of Toronto's main arterials penetrate into Pickering (compare to Mississauga, Vaughan, Markham, etc.). Additionally, Durham's population is concentrated along the 401/Lakeshore East corridor with few other routes into the city, and little of the North-South depth that characterizes the more connected Western GTA.

Oshawa doesn't really fit into the Toronto suburb mould. It's probably the most self-contained city in the traditional GTA, comparable to Hamilton moreso than, say, Vaughan or Oakville.

I don't really see the point in integrating Durham more into the GTA. Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, and suburban Oshawa are already thoroughly and unmistakeably GTA. They all have all-day GO train service (unlike Brampton, Markham, etc.), and demographically-speaking, are far more similar to other GTA municipalities than to the surrounding rural hinterland. Leave the small towns and farmland alone.

While I disagree about Oshawa, (around 25% of Oshawans work in Toronto) I tend to agree with your post. Clarington should be GTA though.
 
I think a region should be required to have reached a certain density in order to be aborbed as part of GTA. Otherwise the increasing demand for infrastructure for the decreasing density overall is just not worth it.

The past thing GTA wants is a vast empty land with few people.
 
Uh ... you realise that GTA is simply an acronym for the Greater Toronto Area. It's an idea, nothing more. There's nothing more to it than the "Dundas/Ossington area".
 
While I disagree about Oshawa, (around 25% of Oshawans work in Toronto) I tend to agree with your post. Clarington should be GTA though.

My Oshawa observation is more centred on the city's downtown (where I've spent much more time) than on the suburban areas that surround it. Of course, this is all just my personal sense of the place based on relatively limited experience, but to me downtown Oshawa has more in common with Ontario's small rust-belt-ish cities than the token heritage "downtowns" that typify the rest of the suburban GTA. Essentially, to me downtown Oshawa feels more like downtown Peterborough than downtown Brampton, Oakville or Markham.
 
Uh ... you realise that GTA is simply an acronym for the Greater Toronto Area. It's an idea, nothing more. There's nothing more to it than the "Dundas/Ossington area".

lol that is what i thought when i read this......then i started to wonder if, secretly, someone had formalized the whole thing and struck committees to review the applications of municipalities wanting in and such things.
 
Uh ... you realise that GTA is simply an acronym for the Greater Toronto Area. It's an idea, nothing more. There's nothing more to it than the "Dundas/Ossington area".

fair enough... in that case, there is no point in asking for integration. You can just claim to be part of GTA.
I heard that even Barrie claims to be part of GTA now.
 
Worth pointing out that Oshawa is a separate metro area, thus technically not part of the GTA.

It's technically part of the GTA (which is defined as the regional municipalities of Halton, Peel, York, and Durham plus the City of Toronto). It's not part of the Toronto CMA.

The GTA is a useful political measure as it doesn't split any municipalities and thus can be represented by 4 regional chairs and 1 mayor. CMA is a statistical measure intended to represent economic connections and is defined by commuting patterns.

all_maps.jpg
 
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It's technically part of the GTA (which is defined as the regional municipalities of Halton, Peel, York, and Durham plus the City of Toronto). It's not part of the Toronto CMA.

The GTA is a useful political measure as it doesn't split any municipalities and thus can be represented by 4 regional chairs and 1 mayor. CMA is a statistical measure intended to represent economic connections and is defined by commuting patterns.

all_maps.jpg

Thank You for the map. Mono is in the Toronto CMA. Intresting.

I think extending the GO to bomanville like planned will be a big help.
 
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A northern GTA perspective:

I'm guessing that part of the reason for this might be that there doesn't seem to be many jobs in Durham outside of the auto sector. My wife commuted to Oshawa from Markham for a while, but I know far, far more people who commute from Durham to York (and Toronto, obviously).

Most of western Durham seems to just be houses, and unless I'm visiting a friend I don't really ever have a need to go out there, whereas I know a lot of people from Durham who come to Markham for Pacific Mall (and even Markville), Unionville, the restaurants, etc. I'm not saying there's nothing worthwhile in Durham, but there aren't as many "big draws."

I think when Seaton is built in north Pickering, Durham Region will become a bit more connected to York Region, since hopefully the buses will connect along Highway 7 (at the yet-to-be-built Cornell Terminal maybe?). There will always be a gap between Durham and York because of the greenbelt, which is a good thing, but I think it will feel more connected. Ironically, the 407 extension will probably do a lot to make things more connected. Also, if the Pickering Airport ever gets built, I would expect major development to follow in the area and the entire region to shift eastward somewhat.
 
Interesting thread topic... agreed with canarob that Seaton, 407, and Pickering Airport will help shift the balance a bit toward the eastern part of the GTA. The western edge has several major highways and the airport which really help to drive employment. Some major planning stuff going on in Durham right now (disputes between Region and Province)
http://www.durhamregion.com/news/ar...man-calls-province-s-seaton-policy-deplorable
 

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