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Is CityPlace Toronto’s next ghetto?

Solid Snake

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http://www.thegridto.com/life/real-estate/is-cityplace-toronto’s-next-ghetto/

Here’s the nightmare scenario: in a few years, once the massive steel-and-glass buildings in the city’s largest residential development start to age, the young condo-dwelling crowd decamps to a trendier area. Cut off from downtown by highways and rail lands, and with little in the way of street life, the towers fall into disrepair and become inhabited by families who can’t afford to live anywhere else. Can we avert a civic disaster at CityPlace?

Under the autumn sunshine, Canoe Landing Park in the heart of CityPlace has the feel of a university quad, right down to the demographic—you have your hard-bodied twentysomethings in Lululemon on the artificial turf field kicking a soccer ball around, your hungover twentysomethings in Lululemon letting their dogs run free on the grass, and your helmeted twentysomethings in jeans and plaid conducting a skateboard race through the park’s winding mile of meandering pathways. Fishnets and miniskirts on a Sunday afternoon in November? Absolutely. Neon orange plastic shades? Check. Tights as outerwear? They’re everywhere you look, as the young creative-class crowd embraces autumn’s pleasures near Douglas Coupland’s sprawling landscape-architecture tribute to Terry Fox, with the tidal roar of the Gardiner Expressway serving as a soundtrack.

Looking northeast from this spot near the Gardiner, midway between Spadina and Bathurst, you can count the gleaming glass-and-steel towers that have sprung up over the past decade. Looking west, you can count the cranes (seven, eight, nine…) that are adding more towers to the city’s skyline. When CityPlace is completed sometime in the next decade, there will be more than 19 highrise and seven midrise towers in this one 44-acre urban block, about 8,000 homes in total. It will be a 21st-century urban neighbourhood built from scratch on what was until recently vacant railway land. Five thousand of these units are already either occupied or ready to be occupied.

It should be an urbanist’s dream, given that environmentalists and city-planning experts have agreed that residential, high-density towers are the way of the future for healthy, affordable, sustainable cities. And today it looks like an emerging young professional playground. There’s the park by Douglas Coupland, the hulking public sculptures by Mark di Suvero and Francisco Gazitua, the groceries by Sobey’s and coffee at The Spot.

Yet many of the people you talk to about CityPlace are worried that what’s being built here is a slum in the making.

“There’s no way CityPlace won’t be a ghetto in 20 years,†says The Grid’s real-estate columnist David Fleming, a Toronto realtor himself.
The relevant analogy seems to be St. James Town, Canada’s most densely populated neighbourhood, and one of its most troubled. The 19 concrete towers there, near Parliament and Bloor, were built in the 1960s to serve the housing needs of young, swinging singles. But by the 1980s, the young and upwardly mobile had moved out and the towers had primarily become homes for low-income families crowded into too-small apartments. Today it houses a large immigrant population, and is a case study for poverty and disconnection from society.

This is the nightmare many foresee for CityPlace: Once the blue-green tinted glass buildings begin to age and no longer feel like the cutting edge in urban design, the development will no longer seem attractive to the young, mostly single and childless professionals who are currently moving in. Whoever replaces them will find a densely populated neighbourhood with little to recommend it. Cut off from the city by highways and rail lands, without much in the way of street life, the fear is the buildings will fall into disrepair and the only people who will live in the tiny apartments are families who can’t afford housing anywhere else.

Back in the 1960s, Toronto built more concrete towers than any other metropolis in North America outside of New York City—in Rexdale and Scarborough, Thorncliffe Park and Flemingdon Park. Today those concrete-tower communities, like St. James Town, are home to the bulk of Toronto’s low-income population, as documented in the United Way’s landmark 2004 “Poverty by Postal Code†report. It’s a situation that led The Globe and Mail to say that Toronto is becoming a “city of vertical poverty.â€

And just as St. James Town is the most visible example of a city-wide lack of foresight, today’s concerns about CityPlace don’t just apply to the area along the Gardiner. Pretty much everywhere in Toronto—around the Scarborough Town Centre, in North York along the Sheppard subway line, at the mouth of the Humber River—we are building glass-and-steel suburbs in the sky similar to the CityPlace model. More condos are under construction in Toronto right now than anywhere else in the world—we have 132 condo towers going up, compared to 88 in Mexico City and 86 in New York (in fourth place, Chicago is building only 17). We’re boldly leading the world into this condominium future—but a repeat of our concrete slab–tower experience would be a civic disaster on a horrendous scale.

On this Sunday in November, as the skateboarders make their way through CityPlace’s landmark park, another group of residents is meeting as part of an attempt to head off the doom-and-gloom predictions. The CityPlace Residents’ Association executive is touring a room at the Rogers Centre where, later this month, it will hold its first town hall meeting. It’s part of what president Dean Maher likes to say is an attempt to “make a house a home.â€

Maher and the rest of the Residents’ Association are aware of the perception that the development is a failure before it has even been completed, and they are determined to counter it in two ways: by creating an involved community of citizens and working with the city government.

“When we moved in it was nothing more than a development—it’s still in the development stage,†Maher says. “And slowly but surely we’re getting people involved in building our community around that development, to make it sort of a neighbourhood here.â€

The obstacles they face are numerous, and only some of them can be addressed by citizens. Real-estate agent Fleming says that a primary concern is the high ratio of investors who own units in the development and rent them out to tenants. “There’s no pride of ownership,†he says. “When you have units that are owned by investors, both landlords and tenants are aligned against the idea of upkeeping the property.†Tenants, he says, view themselves as transients with little reason to care about their home or community beyond the few years they live there; investors want to maximize their profit by putting as little money into the property as possible. And no-one really knows how these condos, built using brand-new construction technologies, will age.

The fear of a transient population and a lack of investment in maintenance is echoed by city councillor Adam Vaughan, who represents the area in which most of CityPlace is located. “Communities do better when people are invested in them,†he says. “When big buildings fall apart, it’s not easy for them to bounce back.†The need for smart development, particularly in condo towers and specifically at CityPlace, is a big part of what motivated Vaughan to get into politics and has been one of his main concerns as a councillor.

One of the key ways to get people to feel invested in a community is to ensure they can raise a family there, he says—“It takes a child to create a villageâ€â€”and so he has lobbied to ensure a percentage of units have three bedrooms, so families will have a place to live and the community’s two planned schools will be full. Still, a “doorman survey†conducted by Vaughan’s office found only 128 children living in the nearly 5,000 units that have been completed, and most of those are younger than preschool age. “What we found,†Vaughan says, “is that if you have a second child, you move. If your kids are ready for school, you move. People don’t see themselves raising a family in the neighbourhood.â€

Maher of the Residents’ Association says he hopes the completion of a Toronto Community Housing tower will help resolve this issue. “You notice there’s an age group missing right now. You have young rofessionals, you have some toddlers, and you have older empty-nesters. Once the schools go in and Toronto Community Housing goes in, you’ll start seeing more families, more teenagers, more kids playing in the park. That will show that this is a great neighbourhood to raise kids.â€
 
Didn't they cut funding to build that project by Concorde Place?

Liberty Village would be another good target for the next ghetto.... All that density and 1 br boxes...
 
It's funny this is a question I'm always bringing up as well. More specifically, I'm always saying that the over all design of the community really missed the mark on attracting pedestrian traffic.

There's absolutely no incentive for people outside the "neighborhood", which remains sort of isolated, to trek there and do some shopping, enjoy any cuisine, etc. Also I wonder if it's not dense enough, with respect to the number of towers that will be there in total. It seems like there's a substantial amount of space that could have been built on but instead hasn't been.

I just dont think the development has truly created a community, but instead has semi isolated towers whose residents would have little reason to walk around that particular area due to the perceived detachment of everything.
 
It's funny that someone who lives at Cityplace is just as close to Queen West as someone who lives in Riverdale is to Queen Est yet Riverdale is a great neighboorhood with so much to offer but the 4 block radius of Cityplace is a ghetto. Oh yeah i forgot, Riverdale is full of backyards where everyone can hide from the public whereas Cityplace is just condos.
To all those that say Cityplace residents can't walk anywhere and have to drive everywhere, what do residents near Wythrow Park do, or residents near the Dupont/Bathurst/Ossington/Dufferin area do? According to most of you the only Annex residents that live in a neighboorhood are those that live within half a block of Bloor. Whereas those that live by Bernard Ave live in a ghetto.
Someone who lives by Spadina/Bernard is just as close to Bloor/Spadina as a Cityplace resident is to King/Spadina.
I guess Cityplace residents, eventhough they are half a km away from King, should get their own street. Go figure.

"Liberty Village would be another good target for the next ghetto.... All that density and 1 br boxes.."

Eh yeah..........no it's not the next ghetto.
 
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To me, CityPlace is already a ghetto. Some will pretend it to be some sort of "neighbourhood" though, but chances are it will be stuck with being a cheap rental place for the early/mid 20s.
CityPlace may be close to King/Spadina, but it will never be part of King West.
 
Building glassy matchbox condos along Gardiner with ingrown road connections already defeats the purpose of "smarth growth". No direct link to Union, Front and Fort York? Somewhere someday someone's going to call this "PONZI SCHEME!"
 
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Honestly, unless some sort of direct access to areas north of Front st is build above the railways, there is no way CityPlace will not be a slum in 20 years. Right now, the urban young choose to live there because the glass towers are new and look chic (plus affordable). in less than 10 years, this will change. what will keep the young professionals in that dead zone? Why would anyone choose to live there if they don't have to?

Between Bathurst and Parliament, it will remain a fantasy to have any sort of vibrant and sustainable neighourhood south of the railways just because of its inaccessibility. Toronto's lakefront railtracks (more than Gardiner) pose a huge problem for the planners, and unless this is solved in a smart way, there is no hope for CityPlace and alike. City planners should not have approved this project before the accessibility issue is tackled. It is not like downtown Toronto is short of empty land to develop.
 
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Honestly, unless some sort of direct access to areas north of Front st is build above the railways, there is no way CityPlace will not be a slum in 20 years. Right now, the urban young choose to live there because the glass towers are new and look chic (plus affordable). in less than 10 years, this will change. what will keep the young professionals in that dead zone? Why would anyone choose to live there if they don't have to?

Between Bathurst and Parliament, it will remain a fantasy to have any sort of vibrant and sustainable neighourhood south of the railways just because of its inaccessibility. Toronto's lakefront railtracks (more than Gardiner) pose a huge problem for the planners, and unless this is solved in a smart way, there is no hope for CityPlace and alike. City planners should have approved this project because the accessibility issue is tackled. It is not like downtown Toronto is short of empty land to develop.

EDIT: REDACTED. Some of what I posted did not meet the standards of what I expect from this forum. So I apologize. I need to remember not to check the board after I start into the vodka :)
 
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I didn't say that either would, but if any place would become rundown and undesireable, MCC would be more likely.
 
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It's ridiculous to think that Cityplace will become a ghetto just because.

Most wealthy suburbs are 'disconnected' from the city and yet they do alright.

St. Jamestown and Regent Park were horrible places to live in from the get go. Public transit was a long walk away from most residences, there was no retail, no supermarkets in the area, poorly kept grass 50m around each and every building. No washing machines ensuite. Terrible heating. No A/C. Few or no amenities. And aesthetically the buildings were an eye-sore from the moment they were built.

Cityplace is different in just about every way except for the fact that it's a master-planned tower community. You can have views of the lake from an attractive building full of amenities 2 minutes from a supermarket and 3 minutes from the 510, next to King West (less than 10min walk once the bridge is built), and will have a library and schools, not to mention decent kitchens washers/dryers and washrooms in units.

MCC is already very run down. Its inhabitants are usually the types that'd rather live in a house in brampton but can't afford it. But it might funnily enough undergo gentrification if a more urban fabric develops over time.
 
With Bay St. South conglomerating up around Bremner, CityPlace will continue to attract young professionals who want to live close to work. CityPlace will not become a ghetto.

I think the opposite to that claim is true. Property values will continue to rise in this part of town as more jobs continue to flow here which will increase desirability for retail as more and more people live and work in this area.

Right now CityPlace seems very isolated and artificial but only because this was such a hastened community creation. Over time, I believe it will become more organic as retail and jobs move in.

Over the next 20 to 30 years, the rail corridor is going to become very attractive for both developers and the various stakeholders who own the corridor. Developers will be looking for more prime downtown real estate with every parking lot then fully built over and the Province and Federal government will be looking for money to build transportation which will be a heavy priority with voters screaming for an end to gridlock. Supply + Demand = The corridor will get developed and CityPlace will further densify by double or more.

Finally, and more to the present, I fail to see how living at the base of the city's two most iconic buildings -- the CN Tower and SkyDome -- and steps away from the centre of a booming waterfront is not desirable, and how it will ever be cheap.
 
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With people who do this in new developments, I think it's quite clear where Toronto's next new ghetto will be:


Somewhere above Toronto ...
 

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