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GTA Centre
Enterprise Blvd, Markham
Developer: GTA Sports and Entertainment
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Thread: GTA Centre (new Markham arena, BBB Architects)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPM View Post
    Mississauga, Brampton and Oshawa OHL.
    Marlies AHL,
    Two of those OHL teams battle it out each year for the "most ignored team" trophy.


  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenerationW View Post
    By which time Florida, New Jersey, NY Islanders, and Columbus (among others) could be in a position to move. I don't think waiting for the arena to be completed will be the problem, but rather finalizing the deal to satisfy the league and the Leafs.
    Florida: When the NHL moves to the 4 conference model, they'll be in the same conference as Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Boston, Buffalo, and TBay. This will mean a significant increase in the number of games that Snowbirds of these teams will be able to go to. End result will be a significant increase in revenue.
    New Jersey: They're pretty solid where they are. Not great, but decent.
    NY Islanders will move to Queen's and then they'll be fine. Queen's is also technically still on Long Island, so the name can stay and still be accurate.
    Columbus: The 4 conference format will help them out tremendously, because it means that the majority of their games will be either in their timezone or 1hr ahead. Many fewer 10pm starts will mean more people will be able to stay up and actually watch the games.

    If anybody will move besides Phoenix, it'll be Dallas.

    RE Team name:

    I would think they would go with "Toronto ______". The only NHL team that I can think of that's named after the state when there's another team in the state is Florida (with Tampa Bay being the other one). All of the other teams where the team is named after the state have only 1 team in them (except for NY, but that's because the city shares the same name).

    The only one that I can think of in MLB is the Texas Rangers, with the Houston Astros being the other team in Texas.

    Besides, as a Sens fan I'd be I wouldn't want a team from Toronto assuming the name "Ontario" in their name .

    PS: Random trivia question of the night, seeing as how we're on the topic of sports teams names:

    What is the only state to have teams in all 4 of the major professional sports leagues (NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB) and have all of the teams named after the state they play in, and not the city?
    Last edited by gweed123; 2012-Apr-29 at 00:29.

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    ^is there an arena in Queens? I figure the islanders will end up playing in Brooklyn (also still on the island) in the new arena the Nets are going to. The real issue about them staying on long island is not he name.....when the expansion team was granted in '72 (?) the Rangers waived territorial indemnification as long as they stayed on LI.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gweed123 View Post
    PS: Random trivia question of the night, seeing as how we're on the topic of sports teams names:

    What is the only state to have teams in all 4 of the major professional sports leagues (NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB) and have all of the teams named after the state they play in, and not the city?
    Answer: Minnesota

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markham VIP View Post
    Answer: Minnesota
    Chicken dinner

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOareaFan View Post
    ^is there an arena in Queens? I figure the islanders will end up playing in Brooklyn (also still on the island) in the new arena the Nets are going to. The real issue about them staying on long island is not he name.....when the expansion team was granted in '72 (?) the Rangers waived territorial indemnification as long as they stayed on LI.
    From what I've heard (and the story may have changed since then) is that they were looking at either moving in with the Nets, or building a new arena somewhere in Queens around City Field (I think that's the name of the new Mets stadium). Now the Queens thing may have fallen through, I haven't been following it super closely.

    From what I understand though, the new Nets arena would have a very low capacity for hockey, because it was designed primarily for basketball (from Wikipedia): "Whereas the original Gehry design would have featured a hockey configuration with capacity typical of the arenas used in the National Hockey League, the final design for the Barclays Center is designed mainly for basketball use. It can nevertheless accommodate an NHL-size rink, though the arena will only be able to seat 14,500 fans in its hockey configuration, which would give it the lowest seating capacity in the NHL," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays_Center)

    That would seem to leave the Queens option very much still on the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markham VIP View Post
    Answer: Minnesota
    Yup!

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    ^ Mets play at Citi Field. Prior to Madoff the Mets owners were rumored to building arenas and soccer stadiums in their parking lots.....now, not so much!

    Thanks for the updated info on the arena in Brooklyn.....didn't realize they shrunk it. Guess we will see how it works for hockey on October 2 when Isles and Devils play there.

  8. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by gweed123 View Post
    Florida: When the NHL moves to the 4 conference model, they'll be in the same conference as Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Boston, Buffalo, and TBay. This will mean a significant increase in the number of games that Snowbirds of these teams will be able to go to. End result will be a significant increase in revenue.
    New Jersey: They're pretty solid where they are. Not great, but decent.
    NY Islanders will move to Queen's and then they'll be fine. Queen's is also technically still on Long Island, so the name can stay and still be accurate.
    Columbus: The 4 conference format will help them out tremendously, because it means that the majority of their games will be either in their timezone or 1hr ahead. Many fewer 10pm starts will mean more people will be able to stay up and actually watch the games.

    If anybody will move besides Phoenix, it'll be Dallas.
    Dallas might be in trouble down the road, but according to Bob McCown Florida and New Jersey may be filing for bankruptcy as early as this summer, which means the league could be forced into owning them (like Phoenix). If those teams were to remain in limbo for enough time, the NHL would have little choice but to broker moving someone to Markham The only other option would be contraction, though how Bettman could sell that and still keep his job is a mystery. What I don't see happening anytime soon is expansion.

    The Florida teams might get a few hundred extra snowbirds for certain games if the four conference format happens, but I don't see that translating into significantly more revenue. To survive long-term, these teams either need to ice very good teams almost every year (unlikely), have very benevolent owners (highly unlikely), or have the option of operating with a much lower floor under the next collective agreement (and the players would want something substantial in return for agreeing to that).

    Haven't heard anything about the Islanders possibly moving to Queen's. Brooklyn has been rumoured since the New Jersey Nets are moving there soon, though I'm not sure the new Brooklyn arena is even suitable for an NHL team. The referendum for a new Islander arena in Long Island failed last year, and now their d-day is 2015 when the lease runs out, at which point it is expected owner Charles Wang will end his association with the team one way or another.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenerationW View Post
    Dallas might be in trouble down the road, but according to Bob McCown Florida and New Jersey may be filing for bankruptcy as early as this summer, which means the league could be forced into owning them (like Phoenix). If those teams were to remain in limbo for enough time, the NHL would have little choice but to broker moving someone to Markham The only other option would be contraction, though how Bettman could sell that and still keep his job is a mystery. What I don't see happening anytime soon is expansion.

    The Florida teams might get a few hundred extra snowbirds for certain games if the four conference format happens, but I don't see that translating into significantly more revenue. To survive long-term, these teams either need to ice very good teams almost every year (unlikely), have very benevolent owners (highly unlikely), or have the option of operating with a much lower floor under the next collective agreement (and the players would want something substantial in return for agreeing to that).

    Haven't heard anything about the Islanders possibly moving to Queen's. Brooklyn has been rumoured since the New Jersey Nets are moving there soon, though I'm not sure the new Brooklyn arena is even suitable for an NHL team. The referendum for a new Islander arena in Long Island failed last year, and now their d-day is 2015 when the lease runs out, at which point it is expected owner Charles Wang will end his association with the team one way or another.
    I knew Florida and NJ were in bad shape, but I didn't realize it was to the point of declaring bankruptcy. The NYC metro area is capable of supporting 3 teams, it all just depends on where they're located. NJ was doing fine when they were at the Meadowlands, but moving to the Prudential Center appears to be almost a death wish.

    Hopefully if they do move they can find another suitable location within the NYC Metro (I'm thinking maybe the Bronx?). They're paying territorial rights to the Rangers already, aren't they?

    But ultimately, I really can't see another team moving into the GTHA through relocation. The NHL would be forfeiting a huge amount of expansion revenue for that team. They may move a team to K-W in the GTHA, but that's about it. Anything within the GTA itself will be expansion.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gweed123 View Post
    I knew Florida and NJ were in bad shape, but I didn't realize it was to the point of declaring bankruptcy. The NYC metro area is capable of supporting 3 teams, it all just depends on where they're located. NJ was doing fine when they were at the Meadowlands, but moving to the Prudential Center appears to be almost a death wish.

    Hopefully if they do move they can find another suitable location within the NYC Metro (I'm thinking maybe the Bronx?). They're paying territorial rights to the Rangers already, aren't they?

    But ultimately, I really can't see another team moving into the GTHA through relocation. The NHL would be forfeiting a huge amount of expansion revenue for that team. They may move a team to K-W in the GTHA, but that's about it. Anything within the GTA itself will be expansion.
    Pretty sure the Devils never paid territory fee(s) to the Rangers. The league "asked" the Rangers to take one for the team so that the struggling Rockies to move from Denver.

    Again, is there an arena/market in the Bronx?

    You know that the league can still generate money from a relocating team by charging a "relocation" fee.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOareaFan View Post
    Pretty sure the Devils never paid territory fee(s) to the Rangers. The league "asked" the Rangers to take one for the team so that the struggling Rockies to move from Denver.

    Again, is there an arena/market in the Bronx?

    You know that the league can still generate money from a relocating team by charging a "relocation" fee.
    I'm not sure what the circumstances surrounding the Devils' move was, I wasn't even alive then, haha.

    And the Bronx may not have a rink, but there's plenty of people in the Bronx, Harlem, and the northern part of NYC and the suburbs (Yonkers, Mt. Vernon, etc). Heck, they could even move them to Hartford if they wanted to. I mean, the Bronx itself is 1.3 million people, with Westchester County being almost another million.

    I think that overall NYC can support 3 teams (Rangers in Manhattan, Devils in the Bronx, Islanders in Brooklyn or Queens).

    And yes, the league can still make money from a relocation fee, the asking price for the Coyotes to Hamilton was way beyond what the team was worth. I just think the league can get a lot more from expansion rights than they can for relocation rights, and that's why they'll save Markham for expansion.

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    ^some of us were around when the Expansion KC Scouts were the future.....then they needed to escape to Denver and then NJ. Seeing the apparent probs in Jersey just serves to show that you can never be sure of anything in the business of sports.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOareaFan View Post
    ^some of us were around when the Expansion KC Scouts were the future.....then they needed to escape to Denver and then NJ. Seeing the apparent probs in Jersey just serves to show that you can never be sure of anything in the business of sports.
    Ain't that the truth. Just look at Jim Ballsillie and his attempted purchase of the Coyotes. Yes he has deep pockets, but he was counting on continual income from RIM in order to keep running that team. Now he isn't even AT RIM.

    What kind of a financial situation would the Hamilton Coyotes be in now if that had played out? They would probably be making money, but Jim would have needed to have started looking for partners in order to build a new arena for the team, or even to renovate Copps.

    EDIT: I was just reading up on the Whalers situation, and there seems to be a push on to renovate the XL Center (where the Whalers previously played, and where the Connecticut Whale play now). That may be a potential location for NJ to move.
    Last edited by gweed123; 2012-Apr-29 at 17:22.

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    I just read (national post on-line I think) that markham city council met with Gary bettman, among others from the NHL offices, prior to voting on the project. No one is saying what was said however.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by droyces View Post
    I just read (national post on-line I think) that markham city council met with Gary bettman, among others from the NHL offices, prior to voting on the project. No one is saying what was said however.
    The article for those interested: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04...bettman-talks/

    Very interesting that Gary was even there to meet with them before voting, and that they voted in favour of it immediately after. I wonder if they have an agreement in principle on the Phoenix sale, and they just want to wait until the team is eliminated to make an offer.

    For all we know, there could be more than one team on the move this summer, and Bettman is trying to make sure that it doesn't become the circus that it was in Phoenix in 2009.

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