Urban Toronto - Powered by vBulletin
UrbanToronto News - the latest headlines
Photo of the Day: The Old Mill Bridge
ALSO

View Poll Results: If it were up to you, which future would you like to see?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • A united party coniting of the Liberals and NDP with possible incluion of the former BQ

    5 16.67%
  • Keep the parties separated as is

    23 76.67%
  • Some other scenario

    2 6.67%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33

Thread: Unite the Left?

  1. #1

    Default Unite the Left?

    In the wake of the previous federal election, the liberals have been reduced to an all-time low, and with the likely withdrawal of the BQ from federal politics for a while at least, one could imagine a scenario where the NDP and Liberal Party merged to form a new party. Could you see this happen? Would you like to see this happen?
    Last edited by dunkalunk; 2011-May-04 at 08:49.


  2. #2

    Default

    I would not expect to see all the current Liberals joining with the NDP, there are a lot of Liberals who prefer the Conservatives to the NDP. However, I would expect at least 2/3 of Liberal voters to join the NDP if the federal Liberal Party was to be disbanded. As for the Bloc, their social and economic policies are almost identical with those of the NDP (other than the sovereignty issue, of course), so they were the natural choice for Quebecers who had tired of the Bloc. I could see most of the Bloc voters permanently switching to the NDP, let's say 3/4 of them, and the rest going to the Conservatives.

    This would give the expanded NDP about 47.7% of the total vote, and the expanded Conservatives about 47.4% (based on this election's results).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    If they merged, I probably would not vote for them. The question is who I'd vote for though, since I probably wouldn't vote for the Conservatives either. I'm a centrist voter, or slightly left.

    The only way I'd vote for them is if they shifted significantly right, to where the Liberals have existed. However, in that case, it'd make more sense to disband the NDP, and fold them all into the Liberals.
    Last edited by Eug; 2011-May-04 at 09:17.

  4. #4

    Default

    I don't see a merger palatable to anyone in the parties but Bob Rae, and I'd honestly rather not be stuck with a 2 party system that is more susceptible to corruption and playing political games. the NDP and Liberals are too different.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eug View Post
    If they merged, I probably would not vote for them. The question is who I'd vote for though, since I probably wouldn't vote for the Conservatives either. I'm a centrist voter, or slightly left.
    Scratch that. I'm thinking that a Conservative vote would be a consideration for me in this scenario, if a merged NDP didn't shift toward centre. As a centrist voter, the centre right Conservatives would be closer to my preferences than leftist party like the NDP. Note though that this is specifically with regards to federal politics in Ontario. If I were living in Saskatchewan, I'd probably be voting for the NDP for provincial politics, as they are a different beast altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by dunkalunk View Post
    I don't see a merger palatable to anyone in the parties but Bob Rae, and I'd honestly rather not be stuck with a 2 party system that is more susceptible to corruption and playing political games. the NDP and Liberals are too different.
    I was disappointed to see Bob Rae not ruling out this possibility. I truly thought Rae could make a viable Liberal leader cuz he's a very smart guy and an excellent speaker, but I think too many Liberals are gonna get spooked if he thinks this is a truly viable proposal.

  6. #6

    Default

    In 1993 the Conservatives won 2 seats in the Federal election. Now they have a majority. The Liberals are decimated for now, but will be back and in greater numbers... likely to form a Gov't in 2015 (assuming the world doesn't end in 2012, of course). Bringing the NDP into the Liberal fold would lead to a civil war within the new party. I'm not a Liberal, but find it impossible to believe that they'd make a rash decision as stupid as joining the NDP. In 2015 the NDP will return to the sideshow they have always been Federally and I should imagine alot of folks in Quebec are wondering about now "what was I thinking?" as it would seem clear a good number of NDP candidates were run only so the party could claim a candidate in every riding. The BQ will pick their teeth with the NDP's bones in 2015.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PCC View Post
    In 1993 the Conservatives won 2 seats in the Federal election. Now they have a majority.
    I always find this claim disingenuous. The PC party may have had 2 seats. But the Reform party had several dozen times that. And the latter originated from the PC party. This idea that the Conservatives went down to 2 and then came back to a majority is very intellectually dishonest.

  8. #8

    Default

    I wouldn't want them to merge. A two party system is a bad idea. A Liberal-NDP coalition, on the other hand, I'd support. That and reforming Parliament to something other than first past the post.

  9. #9

    Default

    The Liberals are center-right, and that's a fact. They are in no way a left-wing party.
    Forget the damned motor car and build the cities for lovers and friends.
    Lewis Mumford

  10. #10

    Default

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a few defections in the house, rather than an icky, formal co-mingling of the two parties. Having finally staked out territory that sets them up as a clear alternative to the Right, both as the official oppositon and as the largest oposition party going into the next election, why would the NDP want to be seen courting the rump of the Liberal party? They operate, now, from a position of strength.
    Last edited by Urban Shocker; 2011-May-04 at 15:38.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    3,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LAz View Post
    The Liberals are center-right, and that's a fact. They are in no way a left-wing party.
    I agree. Canada shouldn't be forced to choose between two right wing parties like in the US.

  12. Default

    It is extremely naive to assume that a merged left would win. I would suggest that a merged left might well guarantee that the Conservatives become the natural governing party of Canada.

    Canadians by and large are centrists. While the Liberals have been the 'natural governing party' of Canada, the PC party of old didn't too badly itself. Both parties had solid electoral records. And they did so, because they were centrists. But a merged left party is far more likely to veer left. And as they do, they will shed even more centrist votes. Because you can bet that the Conservatives will tack centre (or at least portray themselves that way) to get those votes.

    I personally think, people misunderstand the lessons that the right learned in the 90s. The Reform/Alliance crew thought that they could force the Conservatives further to the right by carving themselves out. They were also deluded enough to believe that they might have enough popular support to go it on their own. They quickly learned this wasn't true. And they quickly learned that unless you have the reigns of power, you have no real influence. They learned that they had to moderate to win and that only winning would allow them to make the changes they wanted (albeit at a snail's pace). But the time spent learning those lessons, yielded years of Liberal majorities.

    Would a united left have the same take-away? Or would they drift leftward (especially with the NDP in the driver's seat), thereby guaranteeing a decade or more of majority Conservative rule as they cede the centre?

    I do think the Liberals can bounce back. They should need to get back to the centre, where they should have been all along.

  13. #13

    Default

    All the liberals need is a strong, charismatic leader and a firm centrist position. They have 4 years to get this in place.

  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tewder View Post
    All the liberals need is a strong, charismatic leader and a firm centrist position. They have 4 years to get this in place.
    Charismatic like this?


  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterF View Post
    I wouldn't want them to merge. A two party system is a bad idea. A Liberal-NDP coalition, on the other hand, I'd support. That and reforming Parliament to something other than first past the post.
    I have to agree wholly with this statement. There are many in the liberal party who until now would have never considered any type of alternative voting system, as historically, it has benefit them greatly in the past. Hopefully this election ha humbled liberal membership into finally believing that vote-splitting hurts them too, and that they will finally advocate for electoral reform once they or the NDP or both regain power. If there is one thing that has come out of this election result it is that the Bloc, a party who has benefited the most from FPTP , is now decimated and hopefully, would not regain enough seats in the next election (if they are even around next election) to sabotage electoral reform with the conservatives, who have won mainly through the power of vote splitting. I read somewhere today that in the 12 closest candidate races that gave the cons their majority, they won by a combined 6000 votes. In fact, only 39.6% of the electorate voted for them. The conservative would have the most to lose through reform.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •