Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[GraphicMatt]

My suspicion is that the advisory panel will endorse an extension of the subway to Victoria Park. From there, there may be an argument to eventually extend another 3km to Agincourt GO, which is a logical terminus point from a network perspective.

[Paleo]

The report doesn't tell us anything that rational and objective persons don't already know. It's just wishful thinking to believe that having another rapid transit line to NYCC or STC would suddenly cause an employment boom.

[smallspy]

Its not one transfer you are eliminating its TWO. one for sheppard east lrt. two for sheppard to downsview.

And how many people actually take transit from somewhere east of Vic Park to Downsview Station?

From all of the trips that I have taken, not very many at all. And certainly not enough to warrant a subway.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

[11th]

Presumably the only real reason to convert the whole line to LRT is to avoid a transfer, and I doubt that such convenience is worth the expense.

Especially when the LRT is/was planned to connect at platform level anyways. The thing with the trasnfer at Don Mills currently, is that it takes a while to walk from platform level, up two levels, to the bus terminal.
If the subway is ever extended to Victoria Park or beyond, they could do an in-median platform with ramps leading down to subway platform (similar to pre-subway Bloor streetcars).

[11th]

I took the Sheppard line yesterday and observed that it is all cut/cover with fairly high ceilings throughout. I can imagine it being quite straightforward to converting the Sheppard tunnels to LRT with the ability to switch back to full subway in 30 or 50 years when the density there may begin to justify it.

I believe you're speaking about the stations and not the tunnels right?

[Coruscanti Cognoscente]

How easy it is or isn't to convert Sheppard is rather irrelevant considering the cost involved (which Metrolinx estimated at $600 million or something crazy like that). Money that could be put to far better uses, like, I dunno, EXTENDING the line.

Even the SRT conversion I'm not a big fan of, and never have been. It makes far more sense to build a subway while running the SRT into the ground rather than take the SRT out of commission for 4 years.

Sometimes I think the TTC is run by monkeys who throw darts at a map to plan transit.

[gweed123]

My suspicion is that the advisory panel will endorse an extension of the subway to Victoria Park. From there, there may be an argument to eventually extend another 3km to Agincourt GO, which is a logical terminus point from a network perspective.

I would be very happy with that. I would be even happier if they included something that put in some sort of improved bus service on Sheppard East as well.

[Electrify]

Mentioned this in the TC Debate thread, but I wonder if they've looked at converting the line to ground power, or converting to a dual mode power input, and running the subway trains at street level. It would probably be much cheaper than converting the entire tunnel and stations to support low floor light rail, would kill the transfer at Don Mills, and would avoid the political land mine of having to tell people they are converting the subway into an "LRT."

[M II A II R II K]

Instead of converting the subway, they could extend the subway into the middle of the road and fenced off.

[MetroMan]

I believe you're speaking about the stations and not the tunnels right?

The tunnels themselves appear to be cut/cover. Boring machines create round tunnels. From what I was seeing while I was paying attention from Yonge to Leslie where I got off, Sheppard's tunnels are all box shaped.

But given CC's revelation that Metrolinx estimated a conversion at $600M, the point is moot. It would cost more to convert Sheppard than it will lose in operating costs in 60 years. I guess it's staying as is.

[sixrings]

And how many people actually take transit from somewhere east of Vic Park to Downsview Station?

From all of the trips that I have taken, not very many at all. And certainly not enough to warrant a subway.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

not enough to warrant a subway but enough to warrant a lrt

[11th]

Instead of converting the subway, they could extend the subway into the middle of the road and fenced off.

It'd be very similar to C-train. Add some pedestrian bridges and we're all set (and maybe add some elevated sections at arterial intersections)

[nfitz]

The tunnels themselves appear to be cut/cover. Boring machines create round tunnels. From what I was seeing while I was paying attention from Yonge to Leslie where I got off, Sheppard's tunnels are all box shaped.

They are certainly not bored due east of Leslie - in fact the east end of Leslie station you can look down the tracks and what you are seeing is the bridge over the Don River. But as far as I know, virtually all of the rest of the line is bored. I don't recall any huge trenches during construction. And there was certainly enough media coverage of the tunnel boring machines. In fact here is the press release of them dropping a TBM into the starting point just west of Leslie station to bore to Yonge - http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archive...08222350.shtml

But given CC's revelation that Metrolinx estimated a conversion at $600M, the point is moot. It would cost more to convert Sheppard than it will lose in operating costs in 60 years. I guess it's staying as is.

Your likely correct.

[11th]

The tunnels themselves appear to be cut/cover. Boring machines create round tunnels. From what I was seeing while I was paying attention from Yonge to Leslie where I got off, Sheppard's tunnels are all box shaped.

This photo seems to suggest TBM tunnels - notice the black round hole at the end of the platform. Maybe you're referring to the crossover tracks section at Bayview, that part is all cut/cover.

[gweed123]

nfitz is correct. Sheppard was done entirely with TBMs, except for the station boxes and the bridge over the Don River.