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Thread: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

  1. #916

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpmk View Post
    407 transitway would undoubtedly be by far the most useful 401 reliever for long distance trips. Unfortunately the existing 407 express buses are all very poorly designed for non-York students; all the buses terminate at York U, and people coming from the west must transfer to GO 51/52/54 to go further east toward Richmond Hill Centre, and to TTC 60C/196B to get to North York Centre. The express buses from NYCC to SQ1/Oakville/Milton via the 401 are very limited in number and very slow due to heavy 401 congestion. A Yonge extension to Highway 7 and extending all the 407 West buses to Richmond Hill would make this route far more useful.
    I assume this will change after the Spadina line extension is complete and York-bound passengers are dropped off to at the 407 station to transfer to the subway.


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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpmk View Post
    Then eventually it could be extended west to Jane (lots of low income housing here) and east to Scarborough Centre.
    The spadina extension would technically push a sheppard subway almost close to Keele...the road ends at Weston. No point in sending any more subway down there...if you've seen Sheppard past Keele, you know there will never be subway type ridership there.

    In the long term it would be best if the sheppard line as it approached downsview, curves into a south-west direction with a platform adjacent to the current station but either below or above it because the tracks cannot intersect each other...

    The Angle would be: | /

    Then the line would emerge outside and cut right through the Wilson yard on the western boundary (The way the Spadina cuts through the eastern boundary) and dip underground and curve once again into an east-west subway line under Wilson Ave.

    Wilson Ave has far greater potential to be gentrified and has the ridership to support a subway line. This line could go up to Jane and Wilson.

    In the extreme Long-term The line could then continue down Wilson and then down Albion and diagonally slice through Etobicoke intersecting with every major artery and diverting ridership from all routes.

    It is very realistic that riders from Weston Rd, Islington, Kipling, and Martin Grove would switch to a diagonal subway to make their way downtown...via Jane.

    Also in the Extreme Long-Term A jane subway from Bloor or Eglinton to Wilson would be a great connector and most probably the western leg of the DRL.

    Wouldn't it be cool if you could take a subway from Albion Mall to Scarborough Town Centre? I know its nothing more than a dream but just sayin'

  3. #918

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    Quote Originally Posted by accura407 View Post
    The spadina extension would technically push a sheppard subway almost close to Keele...the road ends at Weston. No point in sending any more subway down there...if you've seen Sheppard past Keele, you know there will never be subway type ridership there.

    In the long term it would be best if the sheppard line as it approached downsview, curves into a south-west direction with a platform adjacent to the current station but either below or above it because the tracks cannot intersect each other...

    The Angle would be: | /

    Then the line would emerge outside and cut right through the Wilson yard on the western boundary (The way the Spadina cuts through the eastern boundary) and dip underground and curve once again into an east-west subway line under Wilson Ave.

    Wilson Ave has far greater potential to be gentrified and has the ridership to support a subway line. This line could go up to Jane and Wilson.

    In the extreme Long-term The line could then continue down Wilson and then down Albion and diagonally slice through Etobicoke intersecting with every major artery and diverting ridership from all routes.

    It is very realistic that riders from Weston Rd, Islington, Kipling, and Martin Grove would switch to a diagonal subway to make their way downtown...via Jane.

    Also in the Extreme Long-Term A jane subway from Bloor or Eglinton to Wilson would be a great connector and most probably the western leg of the DRL.

    Wouldn't it be cool if you could take a subway from Albion Mall to Scarborough Town Centre? I know its nothing more than a dream but just sayin'
    If you want to live in pure fantasy i would suggest when sheppard gets to downsview it interlines with the vaughn line. It would go on to stop at downsview park and then keele and finch. At keele and finch it would turn west on finch and continue to humber college and the airport. Wouldnt it be cool if you could take a subway from Humber college to Scarborough Town Centre? I know its nothing more then a dream but just saying

  4. #919

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    Quote Originally Posted by accura407 View Post
    The spadina extension would technically push a sheppard subway almost close to Keele...the road ends at Weston. No point in sending any more subway down there...if you've seen Sheppard past Keele, you know there will never be subway type ridership there.

    In the long term it would be best if the sheppard line as it approached downsview, curves into a south-west direction with a platform adjacent to the current station but either below or above it because the tracks cannot intersect each other...

    The Angle would be: | /

    Then the line would emerge outside and cut right through the Wilson yard on the western boundary (The way the Spadina cuts through the eastern boundary) and dip underground and curve once again into an east-west subway line under Wilson Ave.

    Wilson Ave has far greater potential to be gentrified and has the ridership to support a subway line. This line could go up to Jane and Wilson.

    In the extreme Long-term The line could then continue down Wilson and then down Albion and diagonally slice through Etobicoke intersecting with every major artery and diverting ridership from all routes.

    It is very realistic that riders from Weston Rd, Islington, Kipling, and Martin Grove would switch to a diagonal subway to make their way downtown...via Jane.

    Also in the Extreme Long-Term A jane subway from Bloor or Eglinton to Wilson would be a great connector and most probably the western leg of the DRL.

    Wouldn't it be cool if you could take a subway from Albion Mall to Scarborough Town Centre? I know its nothing more than a dream but just sayin'
    I partly agree with that routing. Although at the end of Wilson, I would again veer the subway line south-west, to an interchange with the Etobicoke North GO station (transfer to Brampton), and then to the airport. That route would attract more ridership from transfers.

    Albion could be served by an LRT line.

  5. #920

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    Quote Originally Posted by sixrings View Post
    If you want to live in pure fantasy i would suggest when sheppard gets to downsview it interlines with the vaughn line. It would go on to stop at downsview park and then keele and finch. At keele and finch it would turn west on finch and continue to humber college and the airport. Wouldnt it be cool if you could take a subway from Humber college to Scarborough Town Centre? I know its nothing more then a dream but just saying
    Interlining between Sheppard and Spadina would be useful, but it will be too expensive to build now since the Spadina extension was designed with no interlining in mind. The Downsview platform of the Spadina line is oriented N-S, and the tracks continue N-S for about 100 m north of Sheppard before curving north-west.

    In order to connet Sheppard trains to Spadina extension, we would have to either veer the line south after Bathurst and arc it under the Wilson Heights area to turn north and alight west of Allen Rd somewhere between the Wilson and Downsview stations to join the existing tracks; or, continue straight under Sheppard and build the second Downsview station oriented E-W, then curve the tracks north-west just west of Sheppard and join the TYSSE tracks near Chesswood.

    Both options would cost quite a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainforest View Post
    I partly agree with that routing. Although at the end of Wilson, I would again veer the subway line south-west, to an interchange with the Etobicoke North GO station (transfer to Brampton), and then to the airport. That route would attract more ridership from transfers.

    Albion could be served by an LRT line.
    Yeah this idea sounds like a good one... An LRT line could begin from Wilson and Albion and go diagonally north-west and right into Brampton while the subway could be emerge from underground near this area and then be elevated along the 401 and terminate at Etobicoke GO Station.

    Or another better option would be to simply move Etobicoke GO to the wide swath of empty land at Islington & 401 then the subway can also terminate there. Another LRT line along Rexdale could begin from there and go into Malton and beyond...

    There is more transit oriented development opportunities at Islington & 401 by the former Molson building then there is at the industrial wasteland of what is now Etobicoke North GO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainforest View Post
    Interlining between Sheppard and Spadina would be useful, but it will be too expensive to build now since the Spadina extension was designed with no interlining in mind. The Downsview platform of the Spadina line is oriented N-S, and the tracks continue N-S for about 100 m north of Sheppard before curving north-west.

    In order to connet Sheppard trains to Spadina extension, we would have to either veer the line south after Bathurst and arc it under the Wilson Heights area to turn north and alight west of Allen Rd somewhere between the Wilson and Downsview stations to join the existing tracks; or, continue straight under Sheppard and build the second Downsview station oriented E-W, then curve the tracks north-west just west of Sheppard and join the TYSSE tracks near Chesswood.

    Both options would cost quite a bit.
    If that do happen, Sheppard West (at the GO tracks) would be a better interchange station than Downsview. The lines can be reconfigured to allow cross-platform transfer; with that, Sheppard wouldn't need a station at Allen/Sheppard either.
    Last edited by 11th; 2011-Nov-07 at 11:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 11th View Post
    If that do happen, Sheppard West (at the GO tracks) would be a better interchange station than Downsview. The lines can be reconfigured to allow cross-platform transfer; with that, Sheppard wouldn't need a station at Allen/Sheppard either.
    Not to mention that it is also a GO Station as well. Wow that would be a pretty significant intermodal hub then eh?

    YUS + Sheppard + GO Barrie Line interchange.

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    Fresh off the press:

    http://www.thestar.com/news/transpor...p-by-stop?bn=1

    How I wish transit planning isn't based on political agendas...

  10. #925

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    While I approve the desicion not to try building the whole line in one shot, building it one stop at a time is the opposite extreme, potentially resulting in unnecessarily high per-km costs. Adding 3-4 stops at a time makes more sense.

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    Yeah, I can't imagine the economies of scale involved in building 1 stop at a time. Do you just leave the TBM down there and turn it on and off when money is flowing?

    This idea smacks of desperation: ie We promised we'd built a subway line but we don't have money so let's at least get started with the first stop. Who builds major infrastructure this way?

    Since the LRT was going to built in one shot I don't know how you can justify - politically or otherwise - building it in phases.

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    I guess the idea maybe is to launch the TBM into the ground at Don Mills and go east to Victoria Park. By the time it reaches Victoria Park the hope is that funding would then be available to push to Warden and so forth...

    Also...is there any harm in keeping a TBM in the ground for some time without operating? I would think it is cheaper than having to extract it out of the ground each time.

    Lastly, this is all moot if they decide to just do a cut n cover installation east of consumers. Why does everything have to be tbm? We are the only city to run an entire line under one specific street right? TBMs are good for the spadina extension because its going diagonally. Sheppard is just going under the street so lets do cut and cover!

    Short pain for long term gain.

  13. #928

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    Quote Originally Posted by accura407 View Post
    Lastly, this is all moot if they decide to just do a cut n cover installation east of consumers. Why does everything have to be tbm? We are the only city to run an entire line under one specific street right? TBMs are good for the spadina extension because its going diagonally. Sheppard is just going under the street so lets do cut and cover!
    There is no long term gain with a Sheppard Subway. And I am sure you have seen pictures of cut and cover construction. To say it's disruptive is an understatement. Businesses and residents along Sheppard would scream bloody murder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by accura407 View Post
    Also...is there any harm in keeping a TBM in the ground for some time without operating? I would think it is cheaper than having to extract it out of the ground each time.
    Unless major improvements have been made recently, TBMs require a ton of maintenance and only last about 15 years when stored in ideal conditions and require a fair bit of maintenance to keep running.

    It's the major reason why we sold Sheppards at the same time as the province was lobbying for Spadina extension funding.

  15. #930

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    well its good to hear some news. i am pro lrt because i knew it could be done, done fast, and done cheap. I hope tho that if it starts it goes to at least warden.

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