News   Apr 23, 2024
Queen's Cross Food Hall Brings Global Flavours to Toronto Eaton Centre
 33     0 
News   Apr 23, 2024
News Roundup for April 23, 2024
 282     0 
News   Apr 23, 2024
Shimmy
 484     0 

Small Ticket Changes

T

TransitPolicyChanger

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
130
Reaction score
3
Location
Toronto. Downtown.
Billions (maybe) Spent on New Transit ... But What About the Small Priced Changes

I know there are lots of threads on UT about the large transit projects and proposals out there right now for projects across both Toronto and the GTA. The debates are heated with many great arguments on either side (i.e. HRT, LTR, vs BRT, and so on). But all of these projects, while potentially affecting a large number of people, will likely not make the majority of transit user's ride any better. All the attention, and rightfully so, is focused on the over capacity Yonge Line, the Transit City vs Rob Ford debate, the frequencies of GO Train services, ...

Maybe it is worth while to discuss the smaller changes that can happen around the GTA to make small but significant changes. Having a nice fancy new Subway Line or LRT line is great, but what if the bus you need to get to that subway is slow and unreliable? What if the easiest way for me to get downtown is to ride the streetcar and avoid the Bloor-Danforth Line? What if in the summer the option of biking along a safe route was available in more places?

Its great for Mayors, Metrolinx, TTC, GO, etc. to talk about spending the billions in potential capital projects and operating budgets, but that leaves a lot of people without a voice.

Where is the other half of Transit Planning? The people that push for more thought into proper signal priority? What about the idea of banning all left turns on all streetcar routes at all times? Where can we find some money to enforce transit only lanes? Where could we potentially put more transit only lanes? ... Some signs and paint and enforcement may make Transit even marginally better for a large number of people. If you can shave 5 - 10 mins off of a transit ride for both halves of your daily trip would that matter?
 
TransitPolicyChanger said:
Billions (maybe) Spent on New Transit ... But What About the Small Priced Changes

I know there are lots of threads on UT about the large transit projects and proposals out there right now for projects across both Toronto and the GTA. The debates are heated with many great arguments on either side (i.e. HRT, LTR, vs BRT, and so on). But all of these projects, while potentially affecting a large number of people, will likely not make the majority of transit user's ride any better. All the attention, and rightfully so, is focused on the over capacity Yonge Line, the Transit City vs Rob Ford debate, the frequencies of GO Train services, ...

Maybe it is worth while to discuss the smaller changes that can happen around the GTA to make small but significant changes. Having a nice fancy new Subway Line or LRT line is great, but what if the bus you need to get to that subway is slow and unreliable? What if the easiest way for me to get downtown is to ride the streetcar and avoid the Bloor-Danforth Line? What if in the summer the option of biking along a safe route was available in more places?

Its great for Mayors, Metrolinx, TTC, GO, etc. to talk about spending the billions in potential capital projects and operating budgets, but that leaves a lot of people without a voice.

Where is the other half of Transit Planning? The people that push for more thought into proper signal priority? What about the idea of banning all left turns on all streetcar routes at all times? Where can we find some money to enforce transit only lanes? Where could we potentially put more transit only lanes? ... Some signs and paint and enforcement may make Transit even marginally better for a large number of people. If you can shave 5 - 10 mins off of a transit ride for both halves of your daily trip would that matter?
Click to expand...

I agree with your message, but you're talking to the wrong people. This is a forum. We discuss things. There is nothing to discuss about signal priority, transit-only lane enforcement and signage. Everyone agrees they are important and that we should implement them.
 
Yeah I agree it is a forum and only open for discussion ... but I was just listing those off as examples, and those are the ones that everyone knows about. I guess the forum side was a discussion of any other ideas (not costly) that could be of value.

Having said that, I am glad everyone agrees they need to be implemented ... haha ... but how
 
I'm pretty sure you're looking for more system-wide suggestions, but I've got a specific change I'd like to see....an express branch of the 53 that shot down the 404 to Don Mills Station, rather than having to crawl all the way to Finch Station. The vast majority of 53 E/F riders have boarded at this point (only 2 stops would be skipped), and they're all going to the subway anyways. It would let the riders fill some of that space on the Sheppard line, pull a few buses out of the Yonge St log-jam, and get those buses back out serving Steeles East much quicker.
 
reaperexpress said:
I agree with your message, but you're talking to the wrong people. This is a forum. We discuss things. There is nothing to discuss about signal priority, transit-only lane enforcement and signage. Everyone agrees they are important and that we should implement them.
Click to expand...
I'd assume he's looking for other ideas. And why not!

Quite frankly, Next Bus is making my commute much better ... standing waiting for streetcars that never come has always been painful. Now it doesn't happen near as often.

So what other small improvements:

- Expand Next Bus to ... well, buses ... and expand the data stream to have short-turn information.

- Implement Presto ... knowing I won't have to worry about what I need to have to use Mississauga Transit or YRT, or GO Buses (I confess I've never actually used one ... and not knowing how to pay for one is a disincentive ...) is more likely to make me drive.

- Electrifying switches would speed up service. I often seem to be on the King car at Parliament and we end up missing the light, because the car in front of us is turning north onto Parliament and has to jump out and change the switches (and back again).

- start POP and all-door loading on streetcars now, instead of waiting for the new cars. We already do it on the 501 ... so the cost would be low.

- how about a Don Mills Rocket bus now. Start at Donlands, and go express to Overlea ... then only a few stops all the way to Don Mills station (Science Centre, Eglinton, Green Belt? Lawrence, York Mills, Graydon?). All the delays on the route tend to be between Pape and Eglinton, and this would bypass them ... though missing Thorncliffe - but the Thorncliffe bus seems to provide them decent service.
 
SlickFranky said:
I'm pretty sure you're looking for more system-wide suggestions, but I've got a specific change I'd like to see....an express branch of the 53 that shot down the 404 to Don Mills Station, rather than having to crawl all the way to Finch Station. The vast majority of 53 E/F riders have boarded at this point (only 2 stops would be skipped), and they're all going to the subway anyways. It would let the riders fill some of that space on the Sheppard line, pull a few buses out of the Yonge St log-jam, and get those buses back out serving Steeles East much quicker.
Click to expand...

Good idea! Here's a similar route I propose:

Route 136 Finch West-Downsview. Travels on Finch from Humber College to Keele, making all stops. It then turns up Keele and takes the York University Busway to Downview Station, stopping only at Dufferin-Finch.

Service would be rush-hours only and would obviously be discontinued when the TYSSE opens.

The hope is that it would divert some riders from the overcrowded Yonge line to the Spadina line.

nfitz said:
start POP and all-door loading on streetcars now, instead of waiting for the new cars. We already do it on the 501 ... so the cost would be low.
Click to expand...

POP was implemented on Routes 501, 502, 503 and 508 because they don't go inside any fare-paid zones. If we want to expand POP to other routes (and we definitely should), we need to renovate all of the subway stations where streetcars are within the fare-paid zone. This shouldn't be too difficult because it mainly consists of adding fare gates, but it's something we need to get started on ASAP. If we don't start soon, we may not get POP up an running by 2013, when the LFLRVs arrive, let alone before.
 
I think at this point one of the biggest single changes that the city can do is the implementation of more express buses. The City is developing a nodal strategy, so use that to your advantage. Most of these nodes have transit hubs at the centre, so do express buses from one node to another.

This will become even more useful when the province expands the HOV lanes on regional highways. An HOV lane down the DVP would be a God-sent for express buses. Being able to run a bus from either STC or NYCC to downtown via the DVP I'm sure would attract a fair amount of ridership.

Implement HOV lanes on Lakeshore Blvd and Richmond/Adelaide Sts, and then do an Ottawa-style BRT through the downtown, and then highways outside the downtown connecting to the nodes within Toronto. Imagine an express bus from Sherway to downtown, think of how many people taking the QEW would get off at Sherway and hop on the bus just to avoid the Gardiner parking lot, and parking rates downtown.

I guess the key in all this is the implementation of HOV lanes along highways and major arterials, which could not only be used for multiple occupant vehicles, but also express buses going from a node to another node within the region.

The other big change is the implementation of queue jump lanes at select priority intersections, in order to improve the efficiency of current bus routes. Relatively modest intersection upgrades, but can make a huge difference in the quality and reliability of service.
 
reaperexpress said:
To help gweed's HOV/Express bus plan reach frutition, why don't we make a general policy? For example: All roads with 3 or more lanes per direction should have their curb lane designated as HOV
Click to expand...

I agree, all three lane roads should have dedicated HOV or Transit only lanes during rush hour. Having said that, the rush hour times should be extended, like they are on Avenue Road and other streets. 7am-9am, or 730 to 930am, and 4-6pm and 330 to 630pm is no longer good enough. Rush hour is spread out longer than it used to be. I'd say all major transit streets be moved to 7am to 10am and 330pm to 7pm for no Stopping. (Don't really want to get started on the No Parking vs No Stopping, vs whatever else the City likes to post).

As for gweed's idea of HOV lanes on Richmond and Adelaide, although I agree these make sense, it might be a better push to free up the high demand King and Queen lines and let the people have these streets to drive on. But it would be a great idea to have HOV lanes here too, not sure where you could put them thou, as turning traffic would slow down flow a lot.
 
TransitPolicyChanger said:
I agree, all three lane roads should have dedicated HOV or Transit only lanes during rush hour. Having said that, the rush hour times should be extended, like they are on Avenue Road and other streets. 7am-9am, or 730 to 930am, and 4-6pm and 330 to 630pm is no longer good enough. Rush hour is spread out longer than it used to be. I'd say all major transit streets be moved to 7am to 10am and 330pm to 7pm for no Stopping. (Don't really want to get started on the No Parking vs No Stopping, vs whatever else the City likes to post).

As for gweed's idea of HOV lanes on Richmond and Adelaide, although I agree these make sense, it might be a better push to free up the high demand King and Queen lines and let the people have these streets to drive on. But it would be a great idea to have HOV lanes here too, not sure where you could put them thou, as turning traffic would slow down flow a lot.
Click to expand...

Great idea on the HOV lanes on roads with 6+ lanes. As for the Richmond/Adelaide thing, the reason why I proposed those is because one-way streets are notorious for improving traffic flow through an area, sometimes even to the detriment of the area. Oshawa switched their main N-S and E-W streets into 2 way streets a while ago, and now they're looking at switching them back, because they did what they were supposed to do: the moved people quickly. The problem is, they moved people THROUGH downtown too quickly. Toronto doesn't have to worry about this problem. Also, 1 HOV lane on a 4 lane street isn't as big of a deal to take away as 2 HOV lanes on a 4 lane street (one-way vs two-way). The impact will be less if they are placed on one-way streets.
 
After doing a quick look on Google, it looks as if the 6+ lane HOV thing may not be as easy as originally thought. A lot of the streets that I thought would make good candidates are only 4 lanes. I took a look at Kipling, Islington, Jane, Keele, Bathurst, Leslie, Victoria Park, Warden, Midland, Brimley, Neilson, Morningside, Meadowvale, St. Clair East and West, Wilson, Sheppard, and pretty much every street in the Old City of Toronto.

The streets I can see for right now are: Dufferin (north of the 401 only), Yonge (north of the 401 only), Don Mills (already has HOV lanes for most of it), Kennedy (north of Ellesmere only), McCowan (North of Ellesmere only), Markham (north of Ellesmere only), Kingston Rd (east of Danforth), Eglinton (outside of central section), Lawrence (East of DVP), York Mills (Leslie to DVP), Ellesmere (east of Warden), Finch (west of Jane), Steeles (west of Bathurst and east of Woodbine), Lakeshore Blvd East and West.

Given this, I'd place my priorities on Lakeshore, Kingston Rd, Dufferin, McCowan, and Eglinton West (until the LRT is operational).
 
gweed123 said:
After doing a quick look on Google, it looks as if the 6+ lane HOV thing may not be as easy as originally thought. A lot of the streets that I thought would make good candidates are only 4 lanes. I took a look at Kipling, Islington, Jane, Keele, Bathurst, Leslie, Victoria Park, Warden, Midland, Brimley, Neilson, Morningside, Meadowvale, St. Clair East and West, Wilson, Sheppard, and pretty much every street in the Old City of Toronto.
Click to expand...

Yes, it alone would not make a huge difference in transportation in the city, but it would improve service and/or speed on the affected bus routes. We might as well make HOV lanes where it is easy to do so.

The streets I can see for right now are: Dufferin (north of the 401 only), Yonge (north of the 401 only), Don Mills (already has HOV lanes for most of it), Kennedy (north of Ellesmere only), McCowan (North of Ellesmere only), Markham (north of Ellesmere only), Kingston Rd (east of Danforth), Eglinton (outside of central section), Lawrence (East of DVP), York Mills (Leslie to DVP), Ellesmere (east of Warden), Finch (west of Jane), Steeles (west of Bathurst and east of Woodbine), Lakeshore Blvd East and West.

Given this, I'd place my priorities on Lakeshore, Kingston Rd, Dufferin, McCowan, and Eglinton West (until the LRT is operational).
Click to expand...

Dufferin already has bus-only lanes north from Sheppard (there are no bus routes south of Sheppard). In fact, that is the street that inspired the idea of a general policy. Wherever Dufferin is 6 lanes (Between Sheppard and Finch, as well as between Steeles and Hwy 7), the curb lanes are HOV. Everywhere else, it's just 4 lanes of regular traffic.

Yonge has HOV (3+) lanes north of Finch. South of Finch, the only bus route is the 97 and there is on-street parking.
 
reaperexpress said:
Dufferin already has bus-only lanes north from Sheppard (there are no bus routes south of Sheppard). In fact, that is the street that inspired the idea of a general policy. Wherever Dufferin is 6 lanes (Between Sheppard and Finch, as well as between Steeles and Hwy 7), the curb lanes are HOV. Everywhere else, it's just 4 lanes of regular traffic.

Yonge has HOV (3+) lanes north of Finch. South of Finch, the only bus route is the 97 and there is on-street parking.
Click to expand...

I was not aware that Dufferin had HOV lanes as well, I thought it was only Don Mills, that stretch of Eglinton East, and Yonge St north of Finch.
 
gweed123 said:
I was not aware that Dufferin had HOV lanes as well, I thought it was only Don Mills, that stretch of Eglinton East, and Yonge St north of Finch.
Click to expand...

Technically they're not HOV lanes, they're bus-only lanes. (Even cars with 3 or more occupants aren't permitted.)
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top