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Thread: Mayor Rob Ford's Toronto

  1. #6091

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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    Many, many members of City Council would love to see Ford's body hanging from a light standard yet none of them have said a word with regard to this charge. I don't think hypocracy is muzzling them as much as a desire to cover their collective asses.
    Does it really come down to Council members hand-guiding Ford towards the right thing to do? Do Mammoliti or Matlow need to gently remind Ford while he was giving his speech that this was a conflict of interest? Is Ford, with his 12 years of experience, totally incapable of doing what's expected of him?

    It doesn't matter whether or not council chose to absolve Ford. Even if the motion failed, he would have still been guilty of a conflict of interest- of not excusing himself from the vote and debate. Of course, this is a somewhat miniscule and foolish thing to prosecute Ford on, but rules are there for a reason.


    Anyways, from what I've heard, the the conflict trial won't be heard until next year. It'll be a long summer of Toronto politics.
    Last edited by jje1000; 2012-Mar-13 at 22:48.


  2. Default

    Anyone else think this whole thing smells like a plot to change the Ford-is-a-lame-duck narrative? Without denigrating Ruby's intelligence or Adam C-F's motives, this is the best thing that could happen to Ford. Whether he wins or loses, much of his slate of recent failures will be wiped clean.

    Obviously Ford's not cunning enough to think this up, but is Towhey? I always figured Kouvalis was more of a plumber.

    And before you laugh the thought out of your head, remember how Ford's campaign got Tory out of the way.

  3. #6093
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Trinity/Spadina
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voxpopulicosmicum View Post
    Anyone else think this whole thing smells like a plot to change the Ford-is-a-lame-duck narrative? Without denigrating Ruby's intelligence or Adam C-F's motives, this is the best thing that could happen to Ford. Whether he wins or loses, much of his slate of recent failures will be wiped clean.

    Obviously Ford's not cunning enough to think this up, but is Towhey? I always figured Kouvalis was more of a plumber.

    And before you laugh the thought out of your head, remember how Ford's campaign got Tory out of the way.
    I do!

    Don't know if it'll wipe the slate clean but definitely a nice distraction to allow his side to regroup.

    Just can't figure Ruby's angle though. Surely he can't be unaware of the optics involved.

  4. #6094

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxpopulicosmicum View Post
    Anyone else think this whole thing smells like a plot to change the Ford-is-a-lame-duck narrative? Without denigrating Ruby's intelligence or Adam C-F's motives, this is the best thing that could happen to Ford. Whether he wins or loses, much of his slate of recent failures will be wiped clean.

    Obviously Ford's not cunning enough to think this up, but is Towhey? I always figured Kouvalis was more of a plumber.

    And before you laugh the thought out of your head, remember how Ford's campaign got Tory out of the way.
    I dunno, if Ruby loses, I think things are pretty much going back to normal. Ford Nation will go "I told you so", gripe a little about wasted money/time and the whole thing will quickly dissipate as Ford gets into all sorts of shenanigans again.

    On the other hand, if Ruby wins, this will truly instill a persecution complex within Ford Nation-and as always, negative memories and feelings will overpower positive ones.


    As for Tory, anyone who decides not to run based on a few callers on the radio probably wasn't serious about running in the first place.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GenerationW View Post
    It doesn't matter what a majority on Council thought? Rob Ford loves you!
    It really doesn't. Council could pass a motion saying they're not going to investigate or implicate Ford for murdering his wife, but that doesn't change the illegality of that act. All Council voted on was whether THEY would investigate the matter.

  6. #6096
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bridgetown, Barbados. No, really!
    Posts
    1,773

    Default Edward Keenan weighs in at The Grid

    "So we can wave all these off as petty details, an ever-growing pile of technicalities, but the details in question are the very safeguards that protect our democracy from being abused. In the mayor’s defence, you can argue—as many are—that the violations here appear relatively minor, and that removal from office is too harsh a penalty for the alleged violations of the rules. That sounds reasonable to me—overturning election results is a fairly steep penalty.

    But that is an argument for which the legislation should be changed to allow lesser penalties. It is a big and dangerous leap to argue instead that the law should not be enforced. And the harsh penalties the law requires are not sensibly evidence that attempting to enforce the law is unfairly partisan.

    We have rules protecting us against potential government corruption for a reason. We expect our elected officials—and especially our mayor—to obey those rules. It is not partisan to hope he will, and to demand that he should."

    http://www.thegridto.com/city/politi...nti-ford-bias/

    I know Ford spends his life doing what he wants because he thinks it's right, but Keenan makes a really good argument that (a) it's a frickin' slippery slope with the guy, and politicians in general and (b) he can't just say he's above the law and/or ignorant of the law. Keenan also makes a couple of good points about whether this is small beer or not and/or good optics for the left or not. Conclusion: Neither point matters.

  7. #6097

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    That makes sense. But Keenan, and a lot of people around here, seem to think that the original infraction - soliciting money as if it was official city business - is not a scandal, because the money was for a charity.

    Anybody who thinks that a charity cannot be used as an election slush fund, or create other ethical conflicts, is not following the saga of Michael Di Biase's Foundation up in Vaughan.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/09...ve-foundation/

    If anything, I think the MCIA should be TIGHTENED UP, to stop this kind of thing.

  8. #6098

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    Quote Originally Posted by k10ery View Post
    That makes sense. But Keenan, and a lot of people around here, seem to think that the original infraction - soliciting money as if it was official city business - is not a scandal, because the money was for a charity.

    Anybody who thinks that a charity cannot be used as an election slush fund, or create other ethical conflicts, is not following the saga of Michael Di Biase's Foundation up in Vaughan.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/09...ve-foundation/

    If anything, I think the MCIA should be TIGHTENED UP, to stop this kind of thing.
    Well one key difference is that Ford's charity is managed by the Toronto Community Foundation, which at least prevents it from being a "charity" (wink wink).

  9. #6099

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    No it doesn't. The TCF itself has made it clear that has no oversight or control over the charity. They just provide "back office functions". See Janet Leiper's report: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...grd/CC52.1.pdf

    Rob decides who gets hit up for money, he decides who gets the money, and he gets a complete list of the donors. He also includes campaign materials in the same envelope as the solicitation letter, and he boasts about his Foundation to voters when running for office (while grossly exaggerating how much money it has raised).

    Even if you prefer not to think that the lobbyist donations are outright kickbacks for favours, this is still a good old fashioned scam, folks!

  10. #6100

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    Yeah, but innocent until proven guilty, and proceed with caution...

  11. #6101

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    Quote Originally Posted by k10ery View Post
    No it doesn't. The TCF itself has made it clear that has no oversight or control over the charity. They just provide "back office functions". See Janet Leiper's report: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...grd/CC52.1.pdf

    Rob decides who gets hit up for money, he decides who gets the money, and he gets a complete list of the donors. He also includes campaign materials in the same envelope as the solicitation letter, and he boasts about his Foundation to voters when running for office (while grossly exaggerating how much money it has raised).

    Even if you prefer not to think that the lobbyist donations are outright kickbacks for favours, this is still a good old fashioned scam, folks!
    Does anybody know how much of Rob Ford's own money he has donated to the charity? Does he actually use his own wealth to contribute to it? You never see that mentioned anywhere. Is that information public?

  12. #6102

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    Quote Originally Posted by k10ery View Post
    No it doesn't. The TCF itself has made it clear that has no oversight or control over the charity. They just provide "back office functions". See Janet Leiper's report: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...grd/CC52.1.pdf

    Rob decides who gets hit up for money, he decides who gets the money, and he gets a complete list of the donors. He also includes campaign materials in the same envelope as the solicitation letter, and he boasts about his Foundation to voters when running for office (while grossly exaggerating how much money it has raised).

    Even if you prefer not to think that the lobbyist donations are outright kickbacks for favours, this is still a good old fashioned scam, folks!
    My experience with this comes from working with a community foundation elsewhere in the province. I assumed they were run similarly.

  13. #6103

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    Does this mean that any elected official can be drummed out of office for soliciting donations or selling raffle tickets or peanuts as a fund raising effort for their children's sports activities?

  14. #6104

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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    Does this mean that any elected official can be drummed out of office for soliciting donations or selling raffle tickets or peanuts as a fund raising effort for their children's sports activities?
    Yes. Mr. Ford was well aware of the law and the consequences for breaking it. The law is the law and it must be followed. I'll admit that the punishment is harsh, but if we allow the small things like this to happen it will open the door to cases that are much more serious then this.

  15. #6105

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    Quote Originally Posted by jje1000 View Post
    Hopefully the case will end without Ford being pushed out of office, and that it'll just tie up his hands for the next while or so.
    Agreed. This case is just a witch hunt by the left (this is coming from a liberal). But the mayor should face VERY SERIOUS consequences for his actions. Perhaps a hefty fine of a few $100,000s and the loss of his salary that he got from being mayor. He should also be banned from running for office the day after he completes his first or second term as mayor.
    Last edited by TheTigerMaster; 2012-Mar-15 at 09:38.

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